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Any way to preserve rubber tracks?
Brianlee
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 04:45 AM UTC
I use metal on anything BUT Shermans or live track subjects, but noticed on some older models, the ruber Tamiya tracks for instance will get hard as a rick and literally crumble if you touch them the wrong way.

I'm getting in the mounting to a base habit with all recent models so as to never have to actually touch them ......

Any way to keep them from getting that way?
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 08:04 AM UTC
Well, not really. There is a discussion elsewhere on this site regarding that subject. Firstly, I don't think Tamiya uses rubber anymore for thier tracks--it's a form of Vinyl. The exposure of this material to paint, plastic surfaces, oils or other environmental elements such as heat and UV light is what's causing the deterioration. Some of these tracks and wheels may also come with mold release agents which will cause their breakdown. I've seen Tamiya kits that are 30+ years old that are fine, others that have the same problems you are experiencing. I think the only way you can absolutely avoid this problem is with resin, styrene or metal track replacements, and even resin or styrene may have problems over time under adverse environmental conditions. The best you can do with kit tracks is to wash them, paint them with acrylics, keep them out of UV light, and where possible "isolate" them from direct contact with other plastics through paint, glue or some other medium. And then hope for the best.
VR, Russ
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 09:37 AM UTC
Tamiya used actual black rubber on their motorised models from the 1960's until the late 1980's. They looked more like fan belts than tank tracks. The rubber couldn't be painted, and would dry out and crumble within a couple of years. In 1967, they offered vinyl track as an option. The sprocket wheels actually had teeth which engaged holes in the track, though the tracks initially only had detail on the outer face. This track could be painted, though enamels would flake off if it were flexed. The vinyl was utterly indestructible, and I had tracks 40 years old that showed no deterioration. However, this track had to be joined by inserting molded pins through holes in the other end, and using a hot knife blade to melt the pin into a soft rivet.
In 1997, Tamiya introduced a new formula, which mixed vinyl and styrene, which could be cemented using styrene glues. However, this formula is very allergic to enamel or lacquer thinners, which will cause it to dry out and crumble, sometimes within days. I have also noted that some batches are fragile, and will simply snap if they have been folded, sometimes while still in the box. Academy still uses the original indestructible vinyl.
Quoted Text

Well, not really. There is a discussion elsewhere on this site regarding that subject. Firstly, I don't think Tamiya uses rubber anymore for thier tracks--it's a form of Vinyl. The exposure of this material to paint, plastic surfaces, oils or other environmental elements such as heat and UV light is what's causing the deterioration. Some of these tracks and wheels may also come with mold release agents which will cause their breakdown. I've seen Tamiya kits that are 30+ years old that are fine, others that have the same problems you are experiencing. I think the only way you can absolutely avoid this problem is with resin, styrene or metal track replacements, and even resin or styrene may have problems over time under adverse environmental conditions. The best you can do with kit tracks is to wash them, paint them with acrylics, keep them out of UV light, and where possible "isolate" them from direct contact with other plastics through paint, glue or some other medium. And then hope for the best.
VR, Russ
chauvel
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 09:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I use metal on anything BUT Shermans or live track subjects, but noticed on some older models, the ruber Tamiya tracks for instance will get hard as a rick and literally crumble if you touch them the wrong way.

I'm getting in the mounting to a base habit with all recent models so as to never have to actually touch them ......

Funny you should write this. I've got a DML Pz III kit where the kit styrene track went from its normal soft workable state to hard & brittle & falling apart in my fingers within a year or so of buying the kit - both runs are totally fubar & can't be used. So now I'm on the hunt for a/m track suitable for the 'G'...

Any way to keep them from getting that way?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 10:08 AM UTC
So-called Dragon Styrene (DS) is another glueable vinyl styrene mix. The early batches seemed more resilient than the Tamiya material, but I've seen many complaints about it deteriorating in recent online discussion groups. For Sherman tracks, the best replacements are the Panda Plastics styrene tracks. There are many aftermarket alternatives for Panzer III track.
Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I use metal on anything BUT Shermans or live track subjects, but noticed on some older models, the ruber Tamiya tracks for instance will get hard as a rick and literally crumble if you touch them the wrong way.

I'm getting in the mounting to a base habit with all recent models so as to never have to actually touch them ......

Funny you should write this. I've got a DML Pz III kit where the kit styrene track went from its normal soft workable state to hard & brittle & falling apart in my fingers within a year or so of buying the kit - both runs are totally fubar & can't be used. So now I'm on the hunt for a/m track suitable for the 'G'...

Any way to keep them from getting that way?
Brianlee
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Posted: Saturday, February 24, 2018 - 03:40 PM UTC
Good info guys - I actually was able to retrofit Friuls to a PZ 3 it happened to but not sure how I can fish a set under my King tiger track guards.

Do the Pandas have angled and straight prices of track like the Friuls? I don't love that concept....

Can someone give me some good options for the newer Easy Eight European Sherman from Tamiya ?
RLlockie
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Posted: Sunday, February 25, 2018 - 08:23 AM UTC
The Panda (formerly RHPS) track comes in separate blocks (with moulded pins) and end connectors, which push fit onto the pins. It is excellent stuff and captures the effect of an end connector spanning two links at the correct angle without the bodge that Friul was obliged to employ.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, February 25, 2018 - 10:29 AM UTC
I think Bronco makes some early and late war Sherman tracks too.
VR, Russ
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Sunday, February 25, 2018 - 07:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Good info guys - I actually was able to retrofit Friuls to a PZ 3 it happened to but not sure how I can fish a set under my King tiger track guards.

Do the Pandas have angled and straight prices of track like the Friuls? I don't love that concept....

Can someone give me some good options for the newer Easy Eight European Sherman from Tamiya ?


Your original question: I used to store vinyl tracks at the nearest landfill but nowadays they recycle most of the household trash as energy so they get burned

Fishing Friuls under Tiger II track guards/fenders:
If the original vinyl track is still in position I would tie a sewing thread to a link at the idler (rear end), cut off the vinyl track below the idler, carefully pull out the old track forward over the sprocket and let the thread be pulled in by the track.
Attach the other end of the thread to the Friul track and pull it in over the idler (no sprocket teeth to worry about), over the roadwheels and onto the sprocket.
If the sprocket wheel doesn't turn it can be helpful to hold the tank vertically, nose down, so that the new track hangs free and can slide along the inside of the fenders/track overhang.

If the old track has already been removed the new track will need to be fed in over the idler while holding the tank vertically and let gravity do the job. Friuls are heavy so they tend to follow where gravity leads. Same procedure as above when it comes to snaking past the sprocket wheel.

/ Robin



Image "borrowed" from this thread:
http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234953327-academy-135-king-tiger-friulmodel-tracks-fitted-nearing-completion/&page=2
Brianlee
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 05:01 AM UTC
Awesome info guys as usual - I actually use the "gravity method" when doing my friuls so I'll try that --- it was an old model and may just redo it with a new kit anyway a this point.
For the Easy Eight tracks, Panda is not offering HVSS

There has to be a better option than the Friuls for HVSS track ???


RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 11:59 AM UTC
Raupen Models have a T-84 set.
https://www.mmodelstore.com/raupenmodel-135scale.aspx

AFV-Club have/had a T-80 set, nr 35032

It's either the fiddly way with 4 separate parts for each link (link + 2 x end-connectors + guide tooth/centre connector) or
other brands with one part per link and the trouble of cutting some links apart to fix the angles to go around the sprocket, idler and the first & last road wheel.
It is possible, looks good when finished but it is fiddly.

There is also AFV-Club 35033 for the T-84

/ Robin
Brianlee
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 12:14 PM UTC
I just saw those - I definitely don't want to be cutting pieces in specific angles to go around the sprocket and idler etc - so would these be a good option:

https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Detailing_and_Weathering/AFV00035032/product.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv7mNvsTF2QIVGrXACh1pIwcYEAQYASABEgIMWfD_BwE
Brianlee
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 12:27 PM UTC
Also, would/should you pre paint the individual parts steel / tire black before assembly or do people typically do it another way ?

Also is the afv club set the steel chevron as on the European theater easy eight Tamiya kit?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Monday, February 26, 2018 - 01:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I just saw those - I definitely don't want to be cutting pieces in specific angles to go around the sprocket and idler etc - so would these be a good option:

https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Detailing_and_Weathering/AFV00035032/product.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIv7mNvsTF2QIVGrXACh1pIwcYEAQYASABEgIMWfD_BwE


AFV-Club 35032 is one of the sets I linked to in my previous post. Both sets from AFV-Club have separate end connectors to make the tracks look right when going around curves.
OTHER brands have single piece links and those are problematic.

Painting: I would do it after assembling a track section
but that is my personal preference since I assemble workable tracks by making stiff sections. Glue all the "workable" features solid ... This means I can paint larger sections without worrying about them splitting.


Tamiya E8 European theater has the T-66 tracks.
These are actually single pin tracks so all the words above about end connectors and angles do not apply

Tasca/Asuka sell T-66 tracks together with the suspension
http://tasca-shop.ocnk.net/product/4
2800 Yen is somewhere around US $27 and then add postage.
Around the same price as many other track sets.
There is also a metal set by Spade Ace for 35 bucks ...
/ Robin

Happened to find a good image about double pin track:


and what happens to the end connector when the track flexes:
Brianlee
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 12:06 PM UTC
Ok great info - so I don't want the AfV club tracks above? I need t-66 not 35032?

RobinNilsson
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Posted: Tuesday, February 27, 2018 - 12:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Ok great info - so I don't want the AfV club tracks above? I need t-66 not 35032?



That's right.
Review at Missing Lynx:
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/usa/tamiya35346reviewbg_1.html

"The running gear includes the later Horizontal Volute Spring Suspension (HVSS) suspension units, and full-length flexible T66 tracks."

If you go for the Asuka set you get an extra HVSS suspension,
I don't know which one is the most detailed.
/ Robin
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