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Armor/AFV: Modern Armor
Modern armor in general.
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New Abrams M1 IP from Panda!
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 01:23 PM UTC

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Not sure I'd trust these drawings.

Indeed those drawings from the Hunnicutt's "Abrams" book are not entirely reliable


At least they show the 3 "M1-style" blow-off panels....

H.P.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 01:34 PM UTC

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Not sure I'd trust these drawings.

Indeed those drawings from the Hunnicutt's "Abrams" book are not entirely reliable


At least they show the 3 "M1-style" blow-off panels....

H.P.


Yes, but they are drawn rectangular, what I believe is wrong.
In my opinion there is no doubt whatsoever that long turret M1IPs had three blow off panels - I have clear photos that prove that. What I cannot so clearly prove is that those IP panels were trapezoid in shape. But as I wrote before, I'm personally fully convinced that they were.

I don't have access to all my references at the moment, but I think this photo below is clear enough to show that long turret M1IP had three blow-off panels.



Link to full resolution version: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/36172303565_efb93761c6_o.jpg
system
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 363 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 04:17 PM UTC

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Not sure I'd trust these drawings.

Indeed those drawings from the Hunnicutt's "Abrams" book are not entirely reliable


At least they show the 3 "M1-style" blow-off panels....

H.P.


Yes, but they are drawn rectangular, what I believe is wrong.
In my opinion there is no doubt whatsoever that long turret M1IPs had three blow off panels - I have clear photos that prove that. What I cannot so clearly prove is that those IP panels were trapezoid in shape. But as I wrote before, I'm personally fully convinced that they were.

I don't have access to all my references at the moment, but I think this photo below is clear enough to show that long turret M1IP had three blow-off panels.



Link to full resolution version: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/36172303565_efb93761c6_o.jpg


There's a small picture of an IPM1 taken from above on p230 of the Hunnicutt book which I think proves you right. The panels look trapezoid. It also clearly shows the longer mantlet compared to the M1.

Comparing it to the drawings on the next page, you can see the drawings are wrong. And it looks like Panda just based their CADs on the drawings without checking the photos
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 05:34 PM UTC

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Comparing it to the drawings on the next page, you can see the drawings are wrong. And it looks like Panda just based their CADs on the drawings without checking the photos

Quite possible, as the main gun barrel length is wrong in both Hunnicutt drawings and Panda kit, although I don't remember if the error is the same in both.
panamadan
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, March 14, 2018 - 06:49 PM UTC

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Not sure I'd trust these drawings.

Indeed those drawings from the Hunnicutt's "Abrams" book are not entirely reliable


At least they show the 3 "M1-style" blow-off panels....

H.P.


Yes, but they are drawn rectangular, what I believe is wrong.
In my opinion there is no doubt whatsoever that long turret M1IPs had three blow off panels - I have clear photos that prove that. What I cannot so clearly prove is that those IP panels were trapezoid in shape. But as I wrote before, I'm personally fully convinced that they were.

I don't have access to all my references at the moment, but I think this photo below is clear enough to show that long turret M1IP had three blow-off panels.



Link to full resolution version: https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4316/36172303565_efb93761c6_o.jpg

this is a tank from Cco 3-69 AR, 24th ID (MECH) taken AT Savanna, GA 1989 in the fall of 1989. This tank is about to be loaded on to a ship for it's trip to Egypt for exercise "Bright Star 90". I know this because I was in this unit.
Dan
Tankrider
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
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Posted: Thursday, March 15, 2018 - 01:26 AM UTC

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Those almost 900 M1IPs became M1A2s/M1A2SEPs in the mid 90's - mid 2000's. If you look closely at pictures of the SEPs, you can see some key indicators that they are rebuilt/upgraded M1s.

John

Yep, I know that. As you know Dragon SEP kit comes with correct early M1 hull features, like straight headlight guards and front fenders without embossed stiffeners


Yeah, I know that you are aware of the ultimate disposition of the M1IPs however, there are some here that didn't know where they went and confuse a M1 with a bustle rack as an "Improved Product" tank. The headlight guards were what I was eluding to as the fenders can be replaced with either version (embossed or non embossed).

As far as determining the true shape of M1/M1IP blow off panels, it is almost impossible without a tape measure. The width measurements differ by the most, 2 inches or 50.8mm for our metric using friends. So, having model makers depict them as being squares is somewhat understandable.

FYIW

John
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