Using 2 Zvezda kits
Why is this piece @ the cupola ( H18 ) a separate molding and what is the raised , circular " bump " on it ? :
Hosted by Darren Baker
KT turret question ( " Porsche " - Zvezda )
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 18, 2018 - 06:09 AM UTC
Currently fusing 2 KT's together ,
Using 2 Zvezda kits
Why is this piece @ the cupola ( H18 ) a separate molding and what is the raised , circular " bump " on it ? :
Using 2 Zvezda kits
Why is this piece @ the cupola ( H18 ) a separate molding and what is the raised , circular " bump " on it ? :
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 18, 2018 - 06:53 AM UTC
I imagine it is separate to facilitate moulding the "bump", which might have been better as the separate piece. There is no separate plate here on the real thing. I think the bump is a pistol port plug. Ideally placed for the commander. It's virtually identical to the pistol port in the turret rear hatch.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 18, 2018 - 07:06 AM UTC
Heh heh -- I was wondering if it was for that one detail ,, lotta seams for no reason .
Figured there's gotta be more to it
Figured there's gotta be more to it
Paska
Joined: August 30, 2004
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Monday, March 19, 2018 - 12:42 AM UTC
While there is no separate plate like part H18 on the real vehicle, the pistol port, although welded shut since the prototype models, is present. It is difficult to see on many period photos, due to being covered with Zimmerit and the typical low resolution of many of the photos.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2018 - 03:52 PM UTC
.... and what is this flat on the barrel shroud ?
Covered by Zim in pix or doesn't exist on the real deal ?
-- if it exists , it faces which way ?
Doesn't show in the instructions
-- Normally I'd acquire books on the tank prior to a build , but haven't yet since this build was a bastardization from the start
Covered by Zim in pix or doesn't exist on the real deal ?
-- if it exists , it faces which way ?
Doesn't show in the instructions
-- Normally I'd acquire books on the tank prior to a build , but haven't yet since this build was a bastardization from the start
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 04:28 AM UTC
The Bovington pre-production KT (i.e. Porsche-designed turret) has the pistol port as depicted on the separate turret side piece in the kit.
It does not have the odd stray rectangular piece on the side of the mantlet, nor any evidence of anything being bolted or welded there.
The kit mantlet appears to be symmetrical top and bottom. However, the Bovington one is noticeably longer at the bottom, logically to cover the slot in the turret front face with the gun elevated (elevation being greater than depression). You could adapt the kit part with plastic sheet and your preferred surface texturing method but you'd need to look at photos or plans to gauge how much extension is needed. By eye, I'd say about 150mm, just over 4mm in scale.
It does not have the odd stray rectangular piece on the side of the mantlet, nor any evidence of anything being bolted or welded there.
The kit mantlet appears to be symmetrical top and bottom. However, the Bovington one is noticeably longer at the bottom, logically to cover the slot in the turret front face with the gun elevated (elevation being greater than depression). You could adapt the kit part with plastic sheet and your preferred surface texturing method but you'd need to look at photos or plans to gauge how much extension is needed. By eye, I'd say about 150mm, just over 4mm in scale.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 03:34 PM UTC
The kit's mantlet is actually slightly longer on one face ,, but only about 1mm .
I don't see the lower length of it being 15 cm longer in these pix - but the bottom face is definitely longer .
That would place that rectangular flat to the turret's right .
No idea what that is or if it's Zvezda only
It's rotated out of alignment here ,,, I can't tell if that is the "flat" on the right side or not .
I don't see the lower length of it being 15 cm longer in these pix - but the bottom face is definitely longer .
That would place that rectangular flat to the turret's right .
No idea what that is or if it's Zvezda only
It's rotated out of alignment here ,,, I can't tell if that is the "flat" on the right side or not .
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 06:22 PM UTC
Here are other side views before and after re-painting. Definitely no flat on the other side either. I think the bottom dimension is hard to read. In some photos it looks symmetrical, in others not so. Seems to look longer in lower-angle shots. In the flesh from the floor, so low angle again, it definitely looks longer at the bottom - but probably not the 6" I suggested. 3" maybe at most. But maybe it is just an optical illusion.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 07:03 PM UTC
Don't know why Zvezda didn't think of it, but it would have been more convenient for everyone if they had molded just the pistol port as a separate item instead of a whole chunk of turret side.
srmalloy
Joined: April 15, 2012
KitMaker: 336 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 11:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't know why Zvezda didn't think of it, but it would have been more convenient for everyone if they had molded just the pistol port as a separate item instead of a whole chunk of turret side.
They would have needed a slide mold in order to get a good registration recess for the pistol port; IIRC, that part of the armor is vertical, so it wouldn't have been possible to have a notch or hole in the turret. Given that there doesn't appear to be a weld seam on the Bovington Porsche KT turret where the cupola bulge fairs into the side of the turret, there probably wouldn't have been any way to make that entire section a separate part without making the entire side of the turret a separate part and turning it on its side for molding.
Paska
Joined: August 30, 2004
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Monday, April 09, 2018 - 11:29 PM UTC
While rather ham-fisted on the Zvezda part, if you look at a high-resolution image, you can see the raised area in question. My guess is that this is the remains of the casting lug, ground down after casting the mantle. Normally covered in Zimmerit, it is nearly impossible to see on vintage photos.
https://harveyblackauthor.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/barbarossa-0072.jpg
This feature can also be seen in a close-up view of the mantle on page 46 of Germany's Tiger Tanks, VK45.02 to Tiger II.
https://harveyblackauthor.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/barbarossa-0072.jpg
This feature can also be seen in a close-up view of the mantle on page 46 of Germany's Tiger Tanks, VK45.02 to Tiger II.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 01:13 AM UTC
I needed 2 , inexpensive King Tiger kits to molest and Tamiya and Zvezda were about the same price .
Never built a Zezda kit before so I figured this would be good time to check them out .
Look how sneaky Tamiya do it :
Never built a Zezda kit before so I figured this would be good time to check them out .
Look how sneaky Tamiya do it :
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 03:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDon't know why Zvezda didn't think of it, but it would have been more convenient for everyone if they had molded just the pistol port as a separate item instead of a whole chunk of turret side.
They would have needed a slide mold in order to get a good registration recess for the pistol port; IIRC, that part of the armor is vertical, so it wouldn't have been possible to have a notch or hole in the turret. Given that there doesn't appear to be a weld seam on the Bovington Porsche KT turret where the cupola bulge fairs into the side of the turret, there probably wouldn't have been any way to make that entire section a separate part without making the entire side of the turret a separate part and turning it on its side for molding.
I don't see why you gave such a complicated reason when, if you look at the Tamiya instructions just above, their pistol port (part # D24) is molded and attached in just the way I suggested.
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 04:51 AM UTC
That's some-kinda iron on Zimm detail ,
I'm looking for details on this kit , 35169 , to see what they did . Just curious .( would be the kits I would have chosen from Scale Hobbyist if not the Zvezdas )
Here's Dragon's 6302 ,,, I like the wicker sides ; would work well with lawn furniture :
I'm looking for details on this kit , 35169 , to see what they did . Just curious .( would be the kits I would have chosen from Scale Hobbyist if not the Zvezdas )
Here's Dragon's 6302 ,,, I like the wicker sides ; would work well with lawn furniture :
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, April 10, 2018 - 11:28 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't see why you gave such a complicated reason when, if you look at the Tamiya instructions just above, their pistol port (part # D24) is molded and attached in just the way I suggested.
Well, Tamiya didn't do exactly what Sean suggested would be difficult to do, i.e. Tamiya did not provide a good registration mark to locate the pistol port cover. You can plop Tamiya's part anywhere you like on that surface.
If one wishes to provide either an actual pistol port (the actual hole) or a good location mark with which to install the exterior portion of the pistol port cover (the part that Tamiya provides) then you need either a slide mould or a separate part.
No really good/cheap answers to the issue. For every modeller who is fine adding the cover in pretty much the right spot, there's someone who wants a location pip to make sure it's dead on or wants an actual hole and a proper full plug to depict the think open for some reason.
The companies can't really win on this.
Paul
urumomo
Joined: August 22, 2013
KitMaker: 675 posts
Armorama: 667 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 05:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If one wishes to provide either an actual pistol port (the actual hole) or a good location mark with which to install the exterior portion of the pistol port cover (the part that Tamiya provides) then you need either a slide mould or a separate part.
Paul
I think they could easily mold a narrow ,vertical groove into the inside face of the turret- using the same conventional molds , and then the modeler just drills a locating hole at the top (end) of that groove . The pistol port just plugs into it .
I was just consolidating the two boxes so I could get rid of one of these monsters they pack em in .
-- first time I even looked at the back of the box
, They're really liking that cupola piece .
If you didn't know , you'd think for sure there was an individual plate or hatch there on the real tank :
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 07:15 PM UTC
The interior of a pistol port had nothing. There was just a small loop welded to the hull side near the hole with a chain from the loop to the interior face of the pistol port plug. When the guy inside wanted to open the port, he just poked it out. When he wanted to close it, he just pulled it back in by it's chain. The hole and it's plug were both beveled for a smooth fit.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 12, 2018 - 07:37 PM UTC
Just so everyone knows, Dragon's 6189 is very much the same kit as Zvezda's and has the same little separate square for the pistol port. The instructions are the color photo type and since no gap appears after the first picture, it was obvious to me that one fills in the gap.
Way back when it was first released there were some remarks about the separate square piece rather than just a port, but as it would be covered by zimmerit really didn't matter?
Way back when it was first released there were some remarks about the separate square piece rather than just a port, but as it would be covered by zimmerit really didn't matter?
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