Any techniques or advice would be great.
I'm just having a tough time with not having enough time to correctly line the piece up before it sets.
I'm working on a couple of Flyhawk braille kits
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Attaching small PE parts with Varnish?
Brianlee
Joined: December 17, 2017
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 198 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 04:32 PM UTC
I've read some posts on other forums about using white PVA glue or even clear gloss varnish (like VMS?) to "glue" the parts on.
Any techniques or advice would be great.
I'm just having a tough time with not having enough time to correctly line the piece up before it sets.
I'm working on a couple of Flyhawk braille kits
Any techniques or advice would be great.
I'm just having a tough time with not having enough time to correctly line the piece up before it sets.
I'm working on a couple of Flyhawk braille kits
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 04:38 PM UTC
It works as long as you don't put any stress on the PE parts. For instance, I "glued" some flat parts on a turret sides or an engine deck and they still are in place. You can seal them with another coat of varnish prior to painting your model.
The trick is to have the largest contact surface as possible.
Olivier
The trick is to have the largest contact surface as possible.
Olivier
Brianlee
Joined: December 17, 2017
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 198 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 04:50 PM UTC
The PVA or the varnish? This would be for flat, riveted, panel pieces.
PVA seems weak and messy
So varnish both the back of the piece and the surface and let dry ? I just don't want the panels to come off after I prime it.
PVA seems weak and messy
So varnish both the back of the piece and the surface and let dry ? I just don't want the panels to come off after I prime it.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 04:53 PM UTC
One method that could work is to use thin CA and capillary action. Rough up the surface of the PE with fine grit sandpaper.
Hold it in position and apply CA with the point of a needle to the edge of the joint. Capillary action will "suck" in the CA into the joint.
Another method is to glue the PE-part onto a thin shim of styrene sheet. By thin I mean .005 inch or less.
Trim of the edges when the CA has set. Now you have a part with a styrene surface which can be glued to styrene.
Hold the part in position and use a small brush to apply a small drop of solvent glue to the edge. Your old friend capillary action will do the rest of the work.
Both these methods require that the part has more than a minimal surface. They will not work when glueing railings on small scale ship models ....
/ Robin
Hold it in position and apply CA with the point of a needle to the edge of the joint. Capillary action will "suck" in the CA into the joint.
Another method is to glue the PE-part onto a thin shim of styrene sheet. By thin I mean .005 inch or less.
Trim of the edges when the CA has set. Now you have a part with a styrene surface which can be glued to styrene.
Hold the part in position and use a small brush to apply a small drop of solvent glue to the edge. Your old friend capillary action will do the rest of the work.
Both these methods require that the part has more than a minimal surface. They will not work when glueing railings on small scale ship models ....
/ Robin
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 05:20 PM UTC
another good stuff is the "Colle21" a French/Italian glue like CA but it works only when one part is pressed towards the other, they also sell it on Amazon or rebranded by Ammo
http://italienstylerenov.com/english/
http://italienstylerenov.com/english/
d6mst0
#453
Joined: August 28, 2016
KitMaker: 1,925 posts
Armorama: 601 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:05 PM UTC
I seen and use Future floor polish to set PE on a surface of tanks and ships. Just have to be patient with the time it takes to dry.
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:19 PM UTC
I melt the plastic, with cement and press the parts onto it. I have not tried this, on larger parts, but is should work. Just use kid gloves, when handling the assembly.
Brianlee
Joined: December 17, 2017
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 198 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:43 PM UTC
Great suggestions guys thanks
I'm looking for some way to have some time to line the part up so I'd like to make the varnish thing work.
I'm looking for some way to have some time to line the part up so I'd like to make the varnish thing work.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The PVA or the varnish? This would be for flat, riveted, panel pieces.
PVA seems weak and messy
So varnish both the back of the piece and the surface and let dry ? I just don't want the panels to come off after I prime it.
Varnish is better than PVA. Melting the plastic with liquid cement is a good trick too.
GTDeath13
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 921 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 06:56 PM UTC
You can always try different CA brand.
Loctite original CA glue allows you the time to properly align your parts and is pretty strong too with the tiniest quantity needed.
For small parts I put some ca on a hard surface, and touch the pe part on the glue. One thing everyone should avoid is putting ca on the model, since it is hard to control.
Just my 0.02$
Loctite original CA glue allows you the time to properly align your parts and is pretty strong too with the tiniest quantity needed.
For small parts I put some ca on a hard surface, and touch the pe part on the glue. One thing everyone should avoid is putting ca on the model, since it is hard to control.
Just my 0.02$
Brianlee
Joined: December 17, 2017
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 198 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 07:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe PVA or the varnish? This would be for flat, riveted, panel pieces.
PVA seems weak and messy
So varnish both the back of the piece and the surface and let dry ? I just don't want the panels to come off after I prime it.
Varnish is better than PVA. Melting the plastic with liquid cement is a good trick too.
Ok so with the Varnish, just brush it on the model, put the part on and let dry, then coat again with brush or just airbrush a coat over the while subassembly?
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 08:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok so with the Varnish, just brush it on the model, put the part on and let dry, then coat again with brush or just airbrush a coat over the while subassembly?
I just use a brush, no need for an airbrush unless you have a lot of parts to seal at a time.
Olivier
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 08:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I melt the plastic, with cement and press the parts onto it. I have not tried this, on larger parts, but is should work. Just use kid gloves, when handling the assembly.
I did that on my latest project when the pieces were too small for the plastic backing method. I followed up with super glue around the edges, applied with a hair-thin piece of stretched sprue, and it's been very durable.
The plastic backing method described by Robin gives an exceptionally strong joint.
KL
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 09:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok so with the Varnish, just brush it on the model, put the part on and let dry, then coat again with brush or just airbrush a coat over the while subassembly?
Essentially, yes. If you normally gloss coat the entire model before decals and weathering, then this will do the second sealing step. If not, you can apply locally with a brush, especially if using Future as it goes on so thin.
Frankly, I've never used the second step and it hasn't made any difference.
The key is to get as large a contact area as possible. A "T" joint isn't going to be strong at all, a "L" joint will be OK.
Whether varnish or PVA, they are both equally weak, so expect absolutely no strength from the bond and be prepared to have to reinstall the pats if they are things like brush guards or radar antennas that might get contacts in painting or handling.
Parts that lie flat on another surface are perfect for this. Parts that stick up are far less so.
HTH
Paul
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, April 23, 2018 - 11:02 PM UTC
Parts being too small for the plastic backing method:
This is partially a function of being able to trim off the excess styrene around the edges.
Depending on ones skills and tools there will sooner or later be some size where trimming the edges removes the whole backing.
The force used for trimming is more than the bond can handle ...
An extreme method could be to solder the small PE part onto a larger "foot plate" and then use liquid cement/solvent to soften the styrene and press the "foot plate" into the styrene.
In other cases it can be better to replace the PE with wire or something. Trying to glue PE grab handles to styrene is often a waste of time. Drilling two holes and bending a piece of copper wire to shape is usually easier.
/ Robin
This is partially a function of being able to trim off the excess styrene around the edges.
Depending on ones skills and tools there will sooner or later be some size where trimming the edges removes the whole backing.
The force used for trimming is more than the bond can handle ...
An extreme method could be to solder the small PE part onto a larger "foot plate" and then use liquid cement/solvent to soften the styrene and press the "foot plate" into the styrene.
In other cases it can be better to replace the PE with wire or something. Trying to glue PE grab handles to styrene is often a waste of time. Drilling two holes and bending a piece of copper wire to shape is usually easier.
/ Robin
Brianlee
Joined: December 17, 2017
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 198 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - 03:06 AM UTC
Ok great info again --- especially the grab handle comment. I'm doing a few Flyhawk FT-17's in 1/72 and trying to put the grab handles on the front hatch is well, nuts
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - 03:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok great info again --- especially the grab handle comment. I'm doing a few Flyhawk FT-17's in 1/72 and trying to put the grab handles on the front hatch is well, nuts
This is my FT-17 Cast turret from Flyhawk,I used CA gel, a dot placed with a toothpick
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/260546#2209342
P.S:are you doing the cast or riveted turret?....I'm looking for someone who wants to exchange his riveted turret with my cast...to have the 2 versions
Das_Abteilung
Joined: August 31, 2010
KitMaker: 365 posts
Armorama: 351 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - 06:05 AM UTC
On another forum - can't remember which - I saw a recommendation for "acrylic glue" for PE parts. This turned out to be the sort of glue used for attaching false nails and is widely available on eBay and in high street stores selling false nails. It is also called Alpha Cyano. It's cheap. Since I discovered it I haven't used anything else for building and attaching PE and resin parts.
It comes in little dropper-type bottles, but the nozzles are a bit too big for small parts. It also comes in brush bottles which are much more useful. The brush can be trimmed to a smaller diameter. I find it easier with small parts to hold them in tweezers and touch them to the brush to pick up glue before attaching. I jam the glue bottle in a thick glass tealight holder (from Ikea) with Blu-Tack so that I can screw the (pre-loosened) cap on and off one-handed while holding the tweezers in the other.
In fact I put as many glue/solvent bottles as I can in the same thick glass tealight holders to prevent accidental knock-overs. Sadly square bottles like Tamiya's don't fit in the hole but you can Blu-Tack them to the top.
It comes in little dropper-type bottles, but the nozzles are a bit too big for small parts. It also comes in brush bottles which are much more useful. The brush can be trimmed to a smaller diameter. I find it easier with small parts to hold them in tweezers and touch them to the brush to pick up glue before attaching. I jam the glue bottle in a thick glass tealight holder (from Ikea) with Blu-Tack so that I can screw the (pre-loosened) cap on and off one-handed while holding the tweezers in the other.
In fact I put as many glue/solvent bottles as I can in the same thick glass tealight holders to prevent accidental knock-overs. Sadly square bottles like Tamiya's don't fit in the hole but you can Blu-Tack them to the top.
TheLilPeashooter
Joined: March 04, 2018
KitMaker: 71 posts
Armorama: 59 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 24, 2018 - 06:09 PM UTC
The method I use to glue PE parts is use Tamiya ET cement and the white putty. Using the brush, smear some cement on the putty. Then apply the mixture on the plastic and add the photoetch. For larger parts, stick with glue first, then apply the mixture.
The good thing about, it is unlike CA glue, it takes time for the cement to evaporate. This gives you some time to position it. You can also add more layers to fill gaps and add strength.
The good thing about, it is unlike CA glue, it takes time for the cement to evaporate. This gives you some time to position it. You can also add more layers to fill gaps and add strength.
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