I'm considering obtaining Dragon's rendition of the above vehicle/missile system. I note that after a fair bit of Googling, that the vehicle appears to have 4 x substantial cable reels affixed to the rear. It also looks like Dragon's kit comes without these. Therefore I have to following questions:
Were these reels a permanent fixture - or say only added prior to a launch sequence?
If it is the case that they were added presumably I could portray the vehicle in a road move configuration without them?
Lastly, scratching such reels shouldn't be beyond even my mediocre efforts but can anyone point me towards scale drawings, a technical manual sketch or more detailed photographs? Cover on the Net seems a bit sparse.
Overall plan would be to depict the model in USAREUR or Reforger service, if viable.
Thanks in anticipation.
Brian
Hosted by Darren Baker
M727 HAWK
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 02:45 PM UTC
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 03:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm considering obtaining Dragon's rendition of the above vehicle/missile system. I note that after a fair bit of Googling, that the vehicle appears to have 4 x substantial cable reels affixed to the rear. It also looks like Dragon's kit comes without these. Therefore I have to following questions:
Were these reels a permanent fixture - or say only added prior to a launch sequence?
If it is the case that they were added presumably I could portray the vehicle in a road move configuration without them?
Lastly, scratching such reels shouldn't be beyond even my mediocre efforts but can anyone point me towards scale drawings, a technical manual sketch or more detailed photographs? Cover on the Net seems a bit sparse.
Overall plan would be to depict the model in USAREUR or Reforger service, if viable.
Thanks in anticipation.
Brian
Brian
The Mobile M727 HAWK missile launcher was never used by the US ARMY
the Israeli's were the only ones to use it
AKirchhoff
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 307 posts
Armorama: 304 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 03:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian
The Mobile M727 HAWK missile launcher was never used by the US ARMY
the Israeli's were the only ones to use it
Hi!
You might be wrong here. I do have seen 2 pictures of such M727 HAWK launcher in MASSTER camouflage shown on an open house here in Germany. Here is a link:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/1974-camouflage-scheme-photos-t133486-s10.html
Andreas
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 03:47 PM UTC
The picture is rather so-so, but it seems that the reels can be seen (just near the "T" of the watermark 
)
According to the caption, the picture below has been taken in the Black Forest, Germany in 1973 :
http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?0bb890ff65afef1196fdc6ca5deb38777
The reels appear to be mounted on foldable arms.
Self-Propelled HAWK batteries were deployed in Germany in the early 70's :
https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Air%20Defense/USAREUR_10th%20ADA%20Bde.htm
H.P.
) According to the caption, the picture below has been taken in the Black Forest, Germany in 1973 :
http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?0bb890ff65afef1196fdc6ca5deb38777
The reels appear to be mounted on foldable arms.
Self-Propelled HAWK batteries were deployed in Germany in the early 70's :
https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Air%20Defense/USAREUR_10th%20ADA%20Bde.htm
H.P.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 04:22 PM UTC
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 04:40 PM UTC
Chaps,
Thanks for the input so far; I have a Tankograd book on the Reforger series clearly showing an M727 belonging to 32nd AADCOM (not too sure what the full title is) deployed on Exercise CERTAIN THRUST 18-28 Oct 1970; in fact it was this one picture that gave me the idea, especially with a MUTT in attendance. I understand though it wasn't in service with the US military for very long.
The cable reels are clearly fixed in position on the vehicle; thinking about it, it wouldn't make much sense to have them separate - nonsensical for an SP piece of equipment.
I'd seen the MASSTER picture already but thanks for that - very tempting to try and replicate this on the model as well.
I reckon I can manage to produce the reels easily enough - plastic card, compass cutter and some solder for the cabling perhaps, but it's the supporting mechanism that might be a problem so if anyone can help with details of that I'd be very grateful.
Of course, Dragon might surprise me and the kit actually come so equipped, but I suspect not! I also appreciate that other details my be sparse, or even wrong given, sadly Dragon's track record of late, but if it's the only game in town....
Thanks again for all your help.
Brian
Thanks for the input so far; I have a Tankograd book on the Reforger series clearly showing an M727 belonging to 32nd AADCOM (not too sure what the full title is) deployed on Exercise CERTAIN THRUST 18-28 Oct 1970; in fact it was this one picture that gave me the idea, especially with a MUTT in attendance. I understand though it wasn't in service with the US military for very long.
The cable reels are clearly fixed in position on the vehicle; thinking about it, it wouldn't make much sense to have them separate - nonsensical for an SP piece of equipment.
I'd seen the MASSTER picture already but thanks for that - very tempting to try and replicate this on the model as well.
I reckon I can manage to produce the reels easily enough - plastic card, compass cutter and some solder for the cabling perhaps, but it's the supporting mechanism that might be a problem so if anyone can help with details of that I'd be very grateful.
Of course, Dragon might surprise me and the kit actually come so equipped, but I suspect not! I also appreciate that other details my be sparse, or even wrong given, sadly Dragon's track record of late, but if it's the only game in town....
Thanks again for all your help.
Brian
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 04:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The picture is rather so-so, but it seems that the reels can be seen (just near the "T" of the watermark
According to the caption, the picture below has been taken in the Black Forest, Germany in 1973 :
http://militarymashup.com/mmu_get_jpeg.php?0bb890ff65afef1196fdc6ca5deb38777
The reels appear to be mounted on foldable arms.
Self-Propelled HAWK batteries were deployed in Germany in the early 70's :
https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Air%20Defense/USAREUR_10th%20ADA%20Bde.htm
H.P.
French,
Thanks for that; I'd forgotten about the USAREUR website - very inspirational. Also loved stumbling over reference to Wildflecken; I was lucky enough to be part of a TOW Missile firing exercise in the early 90s and stayed there for around a week or so - and was very well looked after.
The profile of the launcher and the cables is very useful too - I just need a sort of rear view to reinforce it all then I might be tempted to have a go at scratching something. It probably won't pass a model engineer's scrutiny though!
Thanks again.
Brian
RobinNilsson
TOS ModeratorJoined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 04:52 PM UTC
There was a lot of discussion when about it here on Armorama when this kit was first announced by Dragon.
I think, if memory doesn't fail me, that the assumption was that Dragon had based their model on an Israeli in some outdoor "museum" which lacked the reels.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/262618&page=1
/ Robin
I think, if memory doesn't fail me, that the assumption was that Dragon had based their model on an Israeli in some outdoor "museum" which lacked the reels.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/262618&page=1
/ Robin
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 07:52 PM UTC
Dragon kit is only good to represent an Israeli museum exhibit, which is a stripped down M727 carrier with trailer based Hawk launcher box put in the back. The actual M727 had completely different launcher assembly with complex mechanism used to shift the launcher between transport and firing positions.
So unless you want to build a model of that museum exhibit, avoid the Dragon kit like a plague...
So unless you want to build a model of that museum exhibit, avoid the Dragon kit like a plague...
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 08:10 PM UTC
Thanks - looks like I'll be scratching more than just the cable reels.
The key here I suppose will be better photographic coverage and conceivably access to any technical manuals; any advice or further assistance will be much appreciated.
On a depressing note though, how sad that Dragon saw fit to produce a copy of a museum lash-up when a really interesting model could have resulted. Plus ça change.....
The key here I suppose will be better photographic coverage and conceivably access to any technical manuals; any advice or further assistance will be much appreciated.
On a depressing note though, how sad that Dragon saw fit to produce a copy of a museum lash-up when a really interesting model could have resulted. Plus ça change.....
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 08:34 PM UTC
Just a further note, are there any surviving launchers in a US museum anywhere?
m75
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 666 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 10:05 PM UTC
Try contacting the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum located at Ft Sill, OK. The web site is:
http://sill-www.army.mil/adamuseum/
They have several vehicles showing the evolution of ADA. The HAWK is shown as the trailer mount, but this doesn't mean the tracked version isn't also in the collection, waiting for it's turn for renovation.
Call the Air defense Artillery Museum at (580) 442-0424 for more information.
Note that the site is under construction, due to the fairly recent move of the ADA school from Ft Bliss TX to Ft Sill.
http://sill-www.army.mil/adamuseum/
They have several vehicles showing the evolution of ADA. The HAWK is shown as the trailer mount, but this doesn't mean the tracked version isn't also in the collection, waiting for it's turn for renovation.
Call the Air defense Artillery Museum at (580) 442-0424 for more information.
Note that the site is under construction, due to the fairly recent move of the ADA school from Ft Bliss TX to Ft Sill.
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 10:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Try contacting the US Army Air Defense Artillery Museum located at Ft Sill, OK. The web site is:
http://sill-www.army.mil/adamuseum/
They have several vehicles showing the evolution of ADA. The HAWK is shown as the trailer mount, but this doesn't mean the tracked version isn't also in the collection, waiting for it's turn for renovation.
Call the Air defense Artillery Museum at (580) 442-0424 for more information.
Note that the site is under construction, due to the fairly recent move of the ADA school from Ft Bliss TX to Ft Sill.
Jim,
Coincidentally (lateral thinking being rare for me!)I've just finished a fair bit of Googling and have just identified the Ft Sill museum website; I'll contact them in the near future but thanks for that - very helpful indeed.
Brian
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 10:35 PM UTC
Brian,
What a coincidence as the Director of the ADA Museum (uses callsign Cobrahistorian here on Armorama) was telling me yesterday that he was working with the Tank and Automotive Command (TACOM)to get a M727 for the ADA Museum. I wil pass the word to him that you are looking for information.
John
What a coincidence as the Director of the ADA Museum (uses callsign Cobrahistorian here on Armorama) was telling me yesterday that he was working with the Tank and Automotive Command (TACOM)to get a M727 for the ADA Museum. I wil pass the word to him that you are looking for information.
John
Removed by original poster on 05/01/18 - 18:30:18 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 05/01/18 - 18:33:14 (GMT).
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2018 - 11:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Brian,
What a coincidence as the Director of the ADA Museum (uses callsign Cobrahistorian here on Armorama) was telling me yesterday that he was working with the Tank and Automotive Command (TACOM)to get a M727 for the ADA Museum. I wil pass the word to him that you are looking for information.
John
John,
Well I've said it before but "All hail to Armorama"; I'm almost at the age whereby my terminal cynicism almost needs treatment - yet on this site my faith in human nature is much restored.
Thank you so much for this; I'll get my thoughts down and compose something coherent and approach him shortly.
Thanks again, and indeed to all those who have responded.
Mind you, don't stop with the images or advice!
Thanks once more,
Brian
mogdude
Joined: June 18, 2012
KitMaker: 459 posts
Armorama: 195 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 02:28 AM UTC
Be nice if someone would do the German M113 based Skorpion and Canada's ADATS in plastic 
Removed by original poster on 05/02/18 - 13:02:51 (GMT).
Removed by original poster on 05/02/18 - 13:04:41 (GMT).
SPHawkPltLdr
Joined: December 24, 2019
KitMaker: 1 posts
Armorama: 1 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 - 07:54 AM UTC
Late to the conversation, but hopefully will be of some assistance. My first active duty assignment in September 1969 was as a Self-Propelled Hawk platoon leader out of Bad Hersfeld, Germany, 32nd Army Air Defense Command. The systems deployment coincided with my arrival at B Battery. My platoon consisted of three tracked launchers, one platoon commander trailer, on high-powered (HIPIR) tracking radar (towed), and one Continuous Wave Acquisition (CWAR) radar (towed). The system was actively used as part of three platoon battery consisting of one towed Hawk platoon and two self-propelled platoons. On site, the towed platoon and one SP platoon were 'on-duty,' but if necessary all three platoons could be deployed separately. The SP launchers did, in fact, have cable reels on the rear of the carrier for quick and easy deployment of the data and power cable and retraction when it came time to move to a new location. I left Germany in December 1970 for RVN, so I don't know how active the SP Hawk units remained on duty in Germany. Hope all this helps.
SWATdoc
#503
Joined: June 29, 2006
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 138 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 24, 2019 - 12:23 PM UTC
Hello Brian. Fort Bliss, Texas and a nearby airport (I can't recall the name at the moment) have very nice HAWK missiles, launchers and tracking systems on display. The museum director at Fort Bliss may be another source for you to contact.
Respectfully,
Allen
Respectfully,
Allen
AKirchhoff
Joined: September 12, 2008
KitMaker: 307 posts
Armorama: 304 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 25, 2019 - 02:48 AM UTC
Hi Allan,
Also thanks from my side for this answer. Do they also have the tracked HAWK launcher on display?
Andreas
Also thanks from my side for this answer. Do they also have the tracked HAWK launcher on display?
Andreas
SWATdoc
#503
Joined: June 29, 2006
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 138 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 26, 2019 - 02:08 PM UTC
Hello Andreas,
Interestingly, I did not find the tracked loader anywhere on a military base. . However, I did see a pair of them in town sitting in a parking area.
One of these days, I intend to go back through my pictures and will be happy to share them with you.
Respectfully,
Allen
Interestingly, I did not find the tracked loader anywhere on a military base. . However, I did see a pair of them in town sitting in a parking area.
One of these days, I intend to go back through my pictures and will be happy to share them with you.
Respectfully,
Allen
SWATdoc
#503
Joined: June 29, 2006
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 138 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 26, 2019 - 02:11 PM UTC
Hello Henry,
Perhaps you know Herr OozleFinch?
Respectfully,
Allen
Perhaps you know Herr OozleFinch?
Respectfully,
Allen
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