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pbennett
Joined: October 14, 2007
KitMaker: 464 posts
Armorama: 412 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:09 AM UTC
I have just read a reply to a query regarding the US M36 Tank Destroyer. Apparently, the term 'Jackson' was given by Tamiya, rather than it being a nickname adopted by US crews. I have no reason to doubt this, but (like many) I had always assumed that the name dated back to WW2.
DarthLetcherous
Joined: June 09, 2013
KitMaker: 22 posts
Armorama: 20 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:28 AM UTC
Gavin for a M113 or Jackson for an M36, there is “Historic” difference of opinion everyday. I’m sure some name was attached, or soon to be, to the M6 till the PTB “powers that be” decided it was a dud. Hell, we had different designations for machines we sent to different allies. I am most happy that we have forums to help us dig into the fact and minutiae that panthers have final drives with meshed gears, three different exhausts, and a gaggle of radios. I LOVE MODELING! I shall now resuming my thumb sucking and Sherman studying, thank you 
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:32 AM UTC
ALBOWIE
Joined: February 28, 2006
KitMaker: 1,605 posts
Armorama: 1,565 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:M36_tank_destroyer
I have to laugh at his thoughts it may be due to a Computer Game. Was around long before the PC!
Al
Dinocamo
Joined: August 26, 2017
KitMaker: 91 posts
Armorama: 89 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 04:44 AM UTC
Well, the M10 GMC is nicknamed "Wolverine" though it is about no where in the official document to call it so.
The most recent example, most of gamers nowadays now know the M4A3 (76)W HVSS as the Sherman Fury... because of Hollywood.
The most recent example, most of gamers nowadays now know the M4A3 (76)W HVSS as the Sherman Fury... because of Hollywood.
Lakota
#123
Joined: November 17, 2008
KitMaker: 1,202 posts
Armorama: 635 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 06:19 AM UTC
Howdy Y'all 
When did the M10 become the Wolverine? I grew up calling it the M10. Is this recent or perhaps this was the British nickname? Just curious about the revisionist history.
Thanks,
Don "Lakota"
When did the M10 become the Wolverine? I grew up calling it the M10. Is this recent or perhaps this was the British nickname? Just curious about the revisionist history.
Thanks,
Don "Lakota"
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 06:56 AM UTC
https://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/names/nicknames5.jpg
Picture of an actual US Army Ordnance document authorizing nicknames for certain pieces of equipment. The M36 GMC is General Jackson. I trust the source, though of course someone will probably chime in to say it's as bogus as Majestic 12 documents are regarding UFOs.
Wolverine was the British nickname for the M10. The Achilles was the one with the 17 pounder, those retaining the 3 inch gun were Wolverines.
These discussions come up again and again. People track down definitive evidence but the confusion continues.
Picture of an actual US Army Ordnance document authorizing nicknames for certain pieces of equipment. The M36 GMC is General Jackson. I trust the source, though of course someone will probably chime in to say it's as bogus as Majestic 12 documents are regarding UFOs.
Wolverine was the British nickname for the M10. The Achilles was the one with the 17 pounder, those retaining the 3 inch gun were Wolverines.
These discussions come up again and again. People track down definitive evidence but the confusion continues.
petbat
Joined: August 06, 2005
KitMaker: 3,353 posts
Armorama: 3,121 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 09:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
https://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/names/nicknames5.jpg
M8 HMC "General Scott"???
Okay maybe, but who in blazes was General "Stud"?
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 09:29 AM UTC
Although I’ve never seen the term ‘Achilles’ in a wartime document; it is always ‘M10 17pdr’. Likewise ‘Valentine 17pdr’ for what some call ‘Archer’.
Dinocamo
Joined: August 26, 2017
KitMaker: 91 posts
Armorama: 89 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 11:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
https://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/names/nicknames5.jpg
Picture of an actual US Army Ordnance document authorizing nicknames for certain pieces of equipment. The M36 GMC is General Jackson. I trust the source, though of course someone will probably chime in to say it's as bogus as Majestic 12 documents are regarding UFOs.
Wolverine was the British nickname for the M10. The Achilles was the one with the 17 pounder, those retaining the 3 inch gun were Wolverines.
These discussions come up again and again. People track down definitive evidence but the confusion continues.
About the M10, the British didn't nicknamed it so. Its official name was M10 (17pdrs) during the war time then named Achilles after the war.
http://tankmuseum.org/museum-online/vehicles/object-e1983-126 (Bovington Museum site)
Even from the Bovington Tank Museum question the nickname "Wolverine"...
They have more precise nickname for the M10 such as Achilles I for the M10, Achilles II for the M10A1 and Achilles Ic/IIc for the 17pdrs variants. It's said that it adopted the "c" designation from the Sherman Firefly to facilitate with the ordnances.
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 06:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Texthttps://worldoftanks.com/dcont/fb/imagesforarticles/chieftains_hatch/names/nicknames5.jpg
M8 HMC "General Scott"???
Okay maybe, but who in blazes was General "Stud"?
Custer or was it "Kilcavalry" Kilpatrick? Both were reckless and full of testosterone.
Thanks for clarifying the name Achilles.
LonCray
Joined: August 24, 2005
KitMaker: 348 posts
Armorama: 256 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 08:42 PM UTC
Any chance that some of these nicknames came from individual vehicles? We know that's the case for 'Fury'. No reason 'Achilles' or 'Wolverine' weren't individual vehicles that gave their name (postbellum) to the entire class? Wouldn't be much different from ships, that.
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
Armorama: 2,539 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 03:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any chance that some of these nicknames came from individual vehicles? We know that's the case for 'Fury'. No reason 'Achilles' or 'Wolverine' weren't individual vehicles that gave their name (postbellum) to the entire class? Wouldn't be much different from ships, that.
There is no indication that either Wolverine or Achilles were broader applications of a single vehicle name.
Wolverine, from what I understand, came about post -war from a peculiarly Canadian predilection to name everything in the bloody army after local fauna. It wasn't called that during the war and by the end of the war is was more or less retconning the name onto equipment we _had_ operated but weren't going to anymore. Achilles was a similar effort by the Brits on the M10 )17 pdr).
We locally called the homemade M4A1s Grizzlies, but even our own army folk in Europe tried to get Canadian bureaucrats to just call them M4A1s or Sherman IIs like everyone else did.
To no avail.
Paul
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