I am struggling to find good colour matches for Cold War (post Battledress, pre DPM) British troops, for some builds set in Summer 1969. I need matches for:

Combat Jacket - green
Combat Trousers
58 Pattern webbing and pouches
Shirts
Tankers' overalls (not RTR; they're easy - black)


I have photographs, but am not confident that the colours in them are true to life. Any popular paint brand will do.

Going out on a limb, has anyone any idea of how a Chaplain would have dressed then?

Many thanks in advance!

Just my timeline!

I still primarily use enamels so bear with me.

For the green combat uniform I use Humbrol 86 Light Olive, but tend to lighten it a bit (white or pale grey). Note that often the jackets (smocks) were lighter than the trousers as soldiers tended to use the jacket more often, hence it was lighter in colour. The reason was that the trousers were very warm being lined so often soldiers would use the then issued denim trousers in conjunction with the jacket.

For 58 pat webbing again I would use the Light Olive but darken it a bit; again though, it would depend on how often the webbing was used, and cleaned (scrubbing). The metal fittings were quite a bright, almost blue-ish green (something approaching Humbrol 88) and would get scratched with use.

Shirts were Khaki Flannel (KF) and varied from khaki to almost khaki drill depending on laundry frequency. So a mix of any khaki drab and khaki drill would work.

I am not so sure about the Coveralls; RAC crews used, I believe, a Coverall which was common throughout the Army, in other words was used by anyone who had a mucky job. The version I am familiar with was an olive green polyester version that fastened with press studs, with a breast pocket and a map pocket on the thigh, but I'm not sure when that came in. Perhaps some former RAC members can help here.

As for Padres, I seem to recall the clerical collar being worn just about all the time; back then the American initiative of wearing a cross on uniform lapels had not been introduced; recognition therefore of a Chaplain was limited to cap badge (black on I think, a purple backing), and said collar.

'Hope this helps!

Brian

A huge ready supply of quality color photos can be found by Googling Dr. Who UNIT. The brigadier and the guys wore the uniforms you're talking about long after DPM camo had replaced it in the serving forces.

Light olive is a great choice BTW.

John,

I forgot to mention footwear; by this time the footwear was the generally issued "Boot, Direct Moulded Sole", a leather ankle boot. The gap as it were between trouser and boot was bridged by either a gaiter - more correctly identified as Anklets, Web, or a short Puttee (that is short compared to the long Puttee of say, WW1 fame), it was still a length of khaki coloured cloth that had to be wrapped around the ankle and secured with a tab folded in on itself. Officers, for some bizarre reason, utilised Puttees in a cream colour - a sniper's dream!

The Anklets, Web would either have been Blanco'ed (that is cleaned and scrubbed with a pale khaki or green paste - colour dependent on Corps or Regiment), or blackened with boot polish, again, according to Corps or Regiment.

I should also have mentioned earlier that officers' shirts were normally of a cream colour, although again, there could be regimental variations, eg the Guards would use a fairly dark khaki. I am sure the more tactically savvy Subalterns would adopt the soldiers' KF shirt and Khaki puttees, not least to avoid the enemy's attention.

Again, I do hope this helps.

Brian

PS it'd a long time since I espied Dr Who and UNIT; dear God, am I that old? (the answer is "Yes"!)

Thank you Brian; it seems that Humbrol 86 will be something of a one stop solution here, with a bit of tonal variety. Excellent. I'll probably go for Humbrol's Khaki colours as well; the shirts will be for Armoured Car and APC crew. I presume the denim trousers were a similar green to 86, perhaps lighter?

Where the Padre's cap badge was worn, was that on a peaked officers' hat, or beret? And can I be so bold as to ask whether you've seen my query on Padres' runabouts in Soft Skins?

Thanks again.


Thank you, Steve; I shall have a look at some stills, there are bound to be some on the net.

John,

Denim trousers definitely Humbrol 86 but quite severely faded unless brand new; map pocket on the left thigh I think (!) - in 1:35 probably indistinguishable from the Combat trousers. denims tended to be worn quite a bit so would be washed often.

Padre's badge was embroidered bullion wire on the dark blue beret with a purple backing patch. Back then some officers would indeed still wear their khaki Service Dress cap with, more or less, whatever they chose. Padre's badge on the SD cap was in black.

A Padre - or indeed any officer (or Other Rank come to that) could purchase a Side Hat - which despite it's name, was not worn on the side of the head like the WW2 guys; it was firmly on the centre of the head as it were. Again, the Padre's Side Hat - if, if my memory serves me correctly, was of a dark blue curtain with a purple crown (if I've used the right terminology for side hats). Badge on this would be the embroidered version.

A few other points from this period which may be of use: most berets at this time were of the very dark blue type; Paras, Army Air Corps, Royal Anglian Regiment, and a few other notables all had their own distinctive colour, but I think at this time even the Guards had dark (Navy) blue berets.

Camouflage face veils were in vogue and worn as a cravat with Combat Dress. These were of a green and brown pattern.

The pullovers from this time were of a dark khaki brown colour with khaki drill reinforcing patches at shoulders (with an epaulette), forearms and wrist. Drawstrings notable at the neck.

Personal weapons,as I'm sure you researched, were the 7.62 Self Loading Rifle, the 9mm Sub Machine Gun, and the 9mm Browning pistol. If an officer had a pistol it would be secured at the neck or shoulder by a lanyard (and of course he'd wear a holster).

Talking of lanyards, if shirt sleeve order was worn (usually from 1 May to the end of September) then Regimental or Corps lanyards might be appropriate, even if worn with Combat trousers.

Padres, perhaps needless to say, would not be armed.

For some reason I've assumed 1:35 which may be wrong of me!

As for a Padre's transport: whilst he often would have a vehicle more or less permanently assigned to him, he may also be at the whim of the respective MT pool in his location. To that end the vehicle could certainly be a Morris Minor Traveller, with appropriate formation signs in addition to a Chaplain sign which would normally be affixed to the front bumper or wired to the grill. I don't recall seeing one on a vehicle roof ever.

Mk 1 Ford Escort Estates were just coming in around then I think, to replace the Morris.

Another option would be for a Morris Mini, which was listed as a "Staff Car, Grade 5". It always used to amuse me to see, how shall I put it? An officer of generous proportions struggle in and out of such a diminutive vehicle. I've always wanted to get hold of the ancient Airfix !:32 kit and finish it as a British Army vehicle.

Lastly (and I suspect a sigh of relief!), remember vehicles at this time (apart from some schemes in British Army of the Rhine) would be in Bronze Green; for this I use Revell 67 with a gloss varnish. The black and green scheme didn't come into use until, I'm pretty sure, 1971.

Brian

Thank you again, Brian. I see 86 and I forming a close relationship, with selected other colours invited along as and when!
I'm working in 1/76, so it would be a repainted Oxford Diecast Minor in DBG for me, or maybe a Corgi Mini (one of their few properly scaled offerings and the correct mark) painted - according to sources - black, not DBG. Is this how you remember them?

One of the projects I have in mind is of an infantry section of the time; I haven't decided on GPMG or Bren, but can barely squeeze in a Carl Gustaf - so I suppose the GPMG it would have to be. I have some figures, some of which will be surgically re-posed, in 1970s gear, but I can't see any difference in my scale between the cut of green Combats and early DPM. So I'll paint them in successive variations of 86. They already have cravats. I had it in mind to produce the Padre from a tank commander figure I have in a strangely 'humble' and non-threatening pose that I would associate more with a Clergyman, but his pistol holster will have to go!

Well 1:76 is quite a forgiving scale- I know as I occasionally forgo 1:35 Cold War and dabble in WW2 in this scale.

Vehicles were definitely Bronze Green not black; black was used at that time for the transport of very senior officers such as Jaguars and Daimlers for eg, the Corps Commander, CinCs or say, the Chief of the General Staff.

Full Colonels and Brigadiers would have utilised Austin 1800s; I also recall Ford Zephyrs all in Bronze Green. But a black Mini? No. I'm not saying it didn't happen somewhere but highly unlikely.

The next generation of civilian type vehicles the Army purchased were indeed in black - presumably to save money - all staff cars then indeed were black, but for 1969, no.

I believe the Carl Gustav was a Platoon Anti Tank weapon as opposed to a Section issue. An Infantry Sect would certainly have had a GPMG but remember the 7.62 LMG (Light Machine Gun) - basically a converted Bren with a less curved magazine and a few other mods - all irrelevant in 1:76 perhaps - was still very much on the books.

One last thing, if you're looking for figures which aren't necessarily engaged in combat, have a look at the Millicast range of figures in resin. They're technically WW2 but are easy enough to convert and are spot on 1:76.

Brian

My Section are Call to Arms - they were sent to me, so I really must do something with them. I am going for a training scenario (ignoring the lack of BFA) with some varied poses to bring up the numbers. I have some old BW white metal Brens whose magazines I can straighten, and I do have a soft spot for this weapon.

I have a few sets of Milicast figures - and what miniature sculptures they are! Looking closely at them, one thing I noticed is that no two of them even have the same basic physique. I'm looking forward to getting hold of their new Centurion AVRE and ARV2.

John,

I know exactly the set you mean - I have a set too!

My plan is to depict them on the ranges - that way I can use all those repetitive standing, firing positions. I also hope to use one of the guys who isn't actually firing but with his weapos sort of halfway up, to portray the odd duffer on the ranges who is a bit slower than his peers.

I managed to get the manufacturer of the bases I use to carve out half a dozen firing trenches (representative of a British range) but I haven't gone any further with the project; mainly as I wanted to use the vignette to also show off the JB Models 1:76 4T truck I haven't built yet(!)

One day I'll get on with it. In the meantime back to the Cold War in 1:35.

Good luck with your plans. Anything else you want from 1969 or the ensuing years just let me know (!)

Brian

Many thanks Brian.

My own build queue has some JB kits in it;

four landies (to be backdated to SII)
three Saracens (which need much work)
two Saladins
but no partridge, and the pear tree is woodland scenics...

I might include one Saracen as a Mark I, having dropped off said section and hanging back, buttoned down. It will take a while anyway; I'm looking at solutions for the firing ports.