Hi Curt,
1. The kit has both styles of road wheels, thin and wide but does not include the tires for the thin road wheels. The thin road wheels are correct for a DAK pz iV D.
2. I think I was spreading rumors about the idler wheels, the ones in the 6779 kit are correct. The drive sprocket is incorrect (Ausf E version).
3. The road wheels and sprocket are the big issues. The original Dragon Pz.IV D and E kits had a number of dimensional errors, see Terry Ashley's PMMS site. and his review of the DAK Pz.IV E (6264). I think many of the Ausf.E issues were addressed in the vorpanzer E (6301) kit, not sure if the Ausf.D issues were corrected in the later D kits.
There significant differences in the turret and cupola between the Ausf D and E. That said you can find tanks with features from both.
A few more ways to get a DAK Pz.IV D:
Using a Tristar/Hobby Boss Pz.IV D plus the tropen engine deck and turret bin from a donor kit would work.
The Cyberhobby/Dragon Pz.IV D Vorpanzer kit (6512) and the Dragon Pz.IV D 3 in 1 kits (6265) give you all the parts you need to make a DAK Pz.IV D.
Nate
Hosted by Darren Baker
Alternatives to DAK Panzer 4 Dragon 6779
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 01:55 AM UTC
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 04:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Curt,
1. The kit has both styles of road wheels, thin and wide but does not include the tires for the thin road wheels. The thin road wheels are correct for a DAK pz iV D.
2. I think I was spreading rumors about the idler wheels, the ones in the 6779 kit are correct. The drive sprocket is incorrect (Ausf E version).
3. The road wheels and sprocket are the big issues. The original Dragon Pz.IV D and E kits had a number of dimensional errors, see Terry Ashley's PMMS site. and his review of the DAK Pz.IV E (6264). I think many of the Ausf.E issues were addressed in the vorpanzer E (6301) kit, not sure if the Ausf.D issues were corrected in the later D kits.
There significant differences in the turret and cupola between the Ausf D and E. That said you can find tanks with features from both.
A few more ways to get a DAK Pz.IV D:
Using a Tristar/Hobby Boss Pz.IV D plus the tropen engine deck and turret bin from a donor kit would work.
The Cyberhobby/Dragon Pz.IV D Vorpanzer kit (6512) and the Dragon Pz.IV D 3 in 1 kits (6265) give you all the parts you need to make a DAK Pz.IV D.
Nate
Nate,
You didn't steer me wrong, believe me. I just wanted to be sure I knew what was needed. I assume that when you write that the Cyber Hobby 6512 has everything needed to build an Ausf D Panzer IV, that mea ns that that kit itself has all that is needed by itself, not combined with any other kit, and that that kit can be made, like the 6301, into a regular Ausf D, without the additional vorpanzer armor. Correct? I don't mind getting another kit, as long as it is 'self contained', so to speak.
Update: I ordered the Cyber Hobby 6512. I’m sure it will work. I went back to look at the Dragon Vorpanzer (6301) that I have in progress, and assuming the kits are similar, it’s easy to not add the extea armor and thus end up with a ‘regular’ Ausf D tank, hopefully with the correct DAK parts as Nate suggests. Cool!!
P.S. and completely off-topic: Not that anyone cares here on Armorama, but recently, I got the Zoukei-Mura 1/48 F-4C Phantom II, and yesterday, the 1/144 Moebius 2001: A Space Odyssey Discovery XD-1 model arrived! I'm really excited about this airplane and I've always hoped someone would make a Discovery in plastic one day. It only took 50 years!
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 09:27 AM UTC
Hi Curt,
Just one caveat, the D vorpanzer kit 6512 does not include markings for North Africa. Otherwise it should have everything you need.
Mostly an armor guy but I have a soft spot for the Phantom II as well.
Nate
Just one caveat, the D vorpanzer kit 6512 does not include markings for North Africa. Otherwise it should have everything you need.
Mostly an armor guy but I have a soft spot for the Phantom II as well.
Nate
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC
Thanks Nate. Anywhere you know of that has North Africa markings, that would be appropriate for an Ausf D? Besides the Dragon 6779? 😊
I found an Eschelon set for DAK Panzer III and IV; do you think those would be okay?
I found an Eschelon set for DAK Panzer III and IV; do you think those would be okay?
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 01:19 PM UTC
Curt,
I don't think that Eschelon set has decals for an Ausf.D, The Star Decals set Afrika Mix #1 has decals for 3 Ausf D's.
On a related note, I found some pictures of a Pz.IV D in Africa with the Ausf. E sprocket (found with the DAK kit).
http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80090
This tank #811 is included in the Star Decal set, it indicates that the tank had additional armor and the E sprocket. The forum photos don't provide a good view of the front of the tank, but does look like there is additional armor in front of the bow mg and the right side of the hull.
The vorpanzer D kit provides the additional armor you would need. I am seriously tempted to build my 6512 kit as this tank.
-Nate
I don't think that Eschelon set has decals for an Ausf.D, The Star Decals set Afrika Mix #1 has decals for 3 Ausf D's.
On a related note, I found some pictures of a Pz.IV D in Africa with the Ausf. E sprocket (found with the DAK kit).
http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80090
This tank #811 is included in the Star Decal set, it indicates that the tank had additional armor and the E sprocket. The forum photos don't provide a good view of the front of the tank, but does look like there is additional armor in front of the bow mg and the right side of the hull.
The vorpanzer D kit provides the additional armor you would need. I am seriously tempted to build my 6512 kit as this tank.
-Nate
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 16, 2018 - 05:48 PM UTC
Of note is the color that looks like dark green sprayed as small spots/streaks in the color photo. You will then notice the same pattern on 811. The spare roadwheels are also camouflaged. I would bet the tools were also. That green might be gray?
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 02:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Curt,
I don't think that Eschelon set has decals for an Ausf.D, The Star Decals set Afrika Mix #1 has decals for 3 Ausf D's.
On a related note, I found some pictures of a Pz.IV D in Africa with the Ausf. E sprocket (found with the DAK kit).
http://www.pwm.org.pl/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=80090
This tank #811 is included in the Star Decal set, it indicates that the tank had additional armor and the E sprocket. The forum photos don't provide a good view of the front of the tank, but does look like there is additional armor in front of the bow mg and the right side of the hull.
The vorpanzer D kit provides the additional armor you would need. I am seriously tempted to build my 6512 kit as this tank.
-Nate
Nate,
Great info and pictures! Many thanks. I have to study the photos more to see the detail that you describe, but I think it would be great to model 811, since these photos exist. With Cyber Hobby 6512 on the way, I'll probably do the same. I presume the 'E' sprocket would have to found somewhere other than 6512 kit?
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 03:30 AM UTC
Curt
You're in luck, the 6512 kit includes the E sprocket too. I plan to use the ausf d sprockets with the 6779 kit.
Greg
That could be the original Dunkel Grau showing through the faded RAL 8000, the disruptive RAL 7008 Khaki-brown, or a mixture of both.
Interesting to note that we see the interior of the open engine hatch and it looks very similar in color to the rest of the tank. I wonder if it was common practice to spray camo on the interior engine hatches?
Nate
You're in luck, the 6512 kit includes the E sprocket too. I plan to use the ausf d sprockets with the 6779 kit.
Greg
That could be the original Dunkel Grau showing through the faded RAL 8000, the disruptive RAL 7008 Khaki-brown, or a mixture of both.
Interesting to note that we see the interior of the open engine hatch and it looks very similar in color to the rest of the tank. I wonder if it was common practice to spray camo on the interior engine hatches?
Nate
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 06:04 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Curt
You're in luck, the 6512 kit includes the E sprocket too. I plan to use the ausf d sprockets with the 6779 kit.
Greg
That could be the original Dunkel Grau showing through the faded RAL 8000, the disruptive RAL 7008 Khaki-brown, or a mixture of both.
Interesting to note that we see the interior of the open engine hatch and it looks very similar in color to the rest of the tank. I wonder if it was common practice to spray camo on the interior engine hatches?
Nate
Nate,
Sorry for being such a pest, but you've been so great in assisting me with my plans for an Ausf D DAK Panzer IV!
So, I gather that you are going to build both the CYber Hobby 6512, AND the Dragon 6779? You've written that you're going to possibly build 6512 as the 811 Panzer in the photos? What, then are you planning to build 6779 as? Just curious.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 06:41 AM UTC
Hi Curt,
No Problem. Both of these kits are a ways back in the queue. I would like to build one as seen in the 5.leichte Division's parade through Tripoli on March 12, 1941. These tanks would still be in Dunkel Grau. Another interesting detail is that some of these tanks had the road wheel and return roller wheel tires painted white. See here: http://8wheels-good.blogspot.com/2013/02/white-wheels-dak.html
-Nate
No Problem. Both of these kits are a ways back in the queue. I would like to build one as seen in the 5.leichte Division's parade through Tripoli on March 12, 1941. These tanks would still be in Dunkel Grau. Another interesting detail is that some of these tanks had the road wheel and return roller wheel tires painted white. See here: http://8wheels-good.blogspot.com/2013/02/white-wheels-dak.html
-Nate
AgentG
Joined: December 21, 2008
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 1,095 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 08:59 AM UTC
The white wheels were used by PzReg 8 which arrived after PzReg 5 and would not appear in the parade.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 10:04 AM UTC
Thanks Wayne for the correction, and of course it says Pz.Rgt 8 on Craig's page. The one picture with a clear shot of a Pz.IV looks like a straight D. The 6779 kit comes with a Pz.Rgt 8 decal option, so that should work.
Nate
Nate
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 11:18 AM UTC
Okay, one more question... I've looked elsewhere and can't find the answer. What is the difference between a Panzer IV Ausf D and Ausf E drive sprocket? I now know the differences in the tires between a D and later versions, but the sprocket differences are eluding me.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 01:52 PM UTC
Curt,
Here is a picture with a good view of the early sprocket used on Pz.IV Ausf.A - D: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv-tank/panzer-iv-russia-eastern-front/
Pz.IV Asuf.E, note the lack of holes along the edge of the sprocket https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv/panzer-iv-55-2/
Nate
Here is a picture with a good view of the early sprocket used on Pz.IV Ausf.A - D: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv-tank/panzer-iv-russia-eastern-front/
Pz.IV Asuf.E, note the lack of holes along the edge of the sprocket https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv/panzer-iv-55-2/
Nate
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 17, 2018 - 11:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Curt,
Here is a picture with a good view of the early sprocket used on Pz.IV Ausf.A - D: https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv-tank/panzer-iv-russia-eastern-front/
Pz.IV Asuf.E, note the lack of holes along the edge of the sprocket https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/panzer-iv/panzer-iv-55-2/
Nate
Perfect Nate, thanks so much! I don’t know how I can be thankful enough for all the hand holding and guidance you have provided! Now, all I need to do is build a tank worthy of all the attention and research. Like you, this tank will likely be pretty far down on the list of builds, but it WILL happen at some point!!
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2018 - 10:52 AM UTC
Nate,
I just wanted to let you know, after you provided all the help to me in this thread, that I finally decided on my path forward. I now have the Cyber Hobby 6512 (the Panzer IV Ausf D Vorpanzer), and I got the Star Decal set which has the exact decals needed to build Panzer 811, which is the DAK Panzer I want to build, now, based on the pictures you provided. I think it's cool to have a Vorpanzer for both an Ausf D and Ausf E! I probably never said what my initial motivation for this build was, but it's because of the Michael Rinaldi Tankart books I have, and in Tankart 1, he did a DAK Panzer IV Ausf E...but I like the 811 Ausf D better, anyway, and planning to do the paint very similar to Rinaldi's 411 Ausf E.
Thank you again, Nate, and Happy Fourth of July!
I just wanted to let you know, after you provided all the help to me in this thread, that I finally decided on my path forward. I now have the Cyber Hobby 6512 (the Panzer IV Ausf D Vorpanzer), and I got the Star Decal set which has the exact decals needed to build Panzer 811, which is the DAK Panzer I want to build, now, based on the pictures you provided. I think it's cool to have a Vorpanzer for both an Ausf D and Ausf E! I probably never said what my initial motivation for this build was, but it's because of the Michael Rinaldi Tankart books I have, and in Tankart 1, he did a DAK Panzer IV Ausf E...but I like the 811 Ausf D better, anyway, and planning to do the paint very similar to Rinaldi's 411 Ausf E.
Thank you again, Nate, and Happy Fourth of July!
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2018 - 02:40 PM UTC
Glad to help Curt and good luck with your project. I picked up the Peddinghaus decals DAK #4 set which includes 801 markings for a straight Pz.IV Ausf.D in panzer gray. Not sure which kit or kits I will use. And Rinaldi's books are amazing.
Have a great holiday!
-Nate
Have a great holiday!
-Nate
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Monday, July 02, 2018 - 02:19 PM UTC
Nate you could build both as DAK and have them parked close to each other. That would highlight the differences between the straight D and the Vorpanzer versions.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 24, 2018 - 02:26 PM UTC
I recently picked up Dragons Pz.iv Ausf.D with the 5cm gun (6736) cheap and it looks like you have all the parts to build a DAK Ausf.D version out of the box (minus decals). It has narrow road wheels which are described as new tool. Both the early style 'smooth' and 'mid' style hub caps are included. The early drive sprocket, turret bin and tropical engine deck are in the box. It appears all of parts for the 75cm L/24 gun are present.
The box art depicts the tank with 40cm tracks, but "36cm" DS tracks are included.
-Nate
The box art depicts the tank with 40cm tracks, but "36cm" DS tracks are included.
-Nate
easyco69
Joined: November 03, 2012
KitMaker: 2,275 posts
Armorama: 2,233 posts
Posted: Monday, July 30, 2018 - 10:38 PM UTC
dragon 6873
cyber hobby 6512
cyber hobby 6512
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 12:47 PM UTC
Who makes an after market set of DAK accesories? I was thinking of extra jerry cans and the like.
Hangelafette
Joined: April 22, 2012
KitMaker: 344 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 02, 2018 - 06:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
dragon 6873
cyber hobby 6512
Dragon 6873 is frustrating because it comes with the narrow road wheels but not the early hubs, instead you only get the mid versions. It would have been nice if they included both. Most of the DAK ausf.D pics I have seen either have all early hubs or a mix of early and mid. This kit is also missing the tropen engine deck and a turret bin.
-Nate
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.