Currently working on Dragon's Panzer III Ausf. N in North Africa, reference 6431.

The kit contains decal markings for heavy tank battalion 501 tanks in Tunisia. Two provide dates of "42/43" and two are listed as "1943".

The instructions call for an overall paint of RAL 8000 only, on all four vehicles. No RAL 7008 is mentioned.

The Panzer III Ausf. N was produced from June 1942 to August 1943.

In theory, such a tank could have had RAL 8000/7008 applied if it was an early build and that paint was still lying around the factory. Or it probably should have been painted RAL 8020/7027, as the order to switch to that color combo went through a few months prior to the start of Ausf. N production in early 1942.

Finally, a late Ausf. N could have been built post February 1943, meaning it could have received an overall Dunkelgelb paint job.

Of course, we have to remember that "going by the book" Tiger 131 almost certainly should have been painted Dunkelgelb, but it was painted in the oldest of the 3 DAK color schemes: RAL 8000/7008! They did that just to make this more annoying.

So, with all that in mind, does anyone have any thoughts on what color scheme to use on a Panzer III Ausf. N in Tunisia in 1942/1943 in general, or a heavy tank battalion 501 vehicle specifically?

Anyone know the color history of the Abteilung 501 Panzers in particular?

Wikipedia claims 16 Panzer IIIs from 501 arrived in Tunisia between November 1942 and January 1943. Those could have all been Ausf. Ns. and probably would have been Ns if they were new vehicles.

Any thought as to the color of those vehicles?

Thanks!

In that time frame 7027/8020 would be the scheme. 7008/8000 was superseded around Jan/Feb 1942, and Dunkelgelb didn't become the norm for about another month (Feb 43). Personally, I would go by the research of historians rather than a model company who has been known to make mistakes.

Also, it is not unlikely the crew may not have applied the secondary color as was often the case with Dunkelgelb vehicles not always using the red-brown or green secondaries.

Let's straighten out the terminology first. The 501 battalion was not part of the Afrikakorps. It was attached to the 5th Panzer Army.

Now, we have a few photos of the 501's light tanks, and we know they would officially have been assigned a "tropical" scheme, so we don't expect them to be Dunkelgrau. And indeed they are clearly not.

There are two possible "tropical" schemes. The first one was still in use for Tigers and could be used by any factory that hadn't run out of the old paint. The second one was in force at the time.

The second scheme, with an RL8020 base, should appear lighter than the first. Also, if both of its colours were used, they should be easy to pick out in B/W because they had different brightness.



But in the best photos of these Pz3 we don't see that. We see a fairly dark finish, and I think that I can see two colours in it, with almost equal darkness. That's how the first scheme looks - RAL 8000 / 7008.



This is an original colour photo. Unfortunately its colour may have shifted. Still, it's clearly not Dunkelgrau and I think RAL 8020 would be somewhat pink, so it should be 8000 / 7008.

David

I'd listen to David. He's done far more research than many of us.

To add to what David has said, while the 8000/7008 combo is difficult to ascertain in B/W photos, it can be seen.

The 501's Pz III N's do not exhibit any signs of a 7008 pattern over the 8000.

G

I was waiting for a wise guy to tell me the 501st wasn't part of the DAK, and then, like clockwork...

There are only so many characters one is allowed in a thread title here...."DAK" saves a lot of space. LOL

Thanks for posting the color photo; I hadn't seen that one yet, but it is so color imbalanced it doesn't offer a ton of help.

I do note the 2 camouflage colors are very close in value and show much less contrast than 8020/7027 shows; for that reason I agree 8000/7008 might be correct.

Are you referring to the color photograph posted above specifically? I thought David was suggesting that was a 501 vehicle.

It seems to show 2 colors of paint. Look at the frontal spaced armor between the machine gun and the driver's window area, for example.

Or are you talking about something else?

Talking about something else.







I see all RAL 8000

G

I see two very similar colors tinted by dust. On the cupola, side of the turret, and along the starboard section of the superstructure.

That is absolutely a 501 tank, and it's in Bovington Museum today, unfortunately cut open and stripped.

David

That is an imaginative eye you have there! Seriously, I would say the photo could show a 2-tone scheme or a single tone. It is pretty inconclusive and you can probably see which one you think it is.

Just think about the layer of dust/dirt that would quickly be over the entire vehicle driving around out there in dry conditions. In fact, I was thinking about this relative to my build the other.

The actual paint scheme on my model may not prove to be that important in the end, as the vehicle is going to be covered under a layer of "North Africa dust"...

Ever drive to some type of huge outdoor event and have to park on a grassy field with dirt roads? If the weather is dry the car gets plastered in a layer of tan/brown dust pretty quickly.

I have some North Africa weathering products arriving today in fact. I will be interested to see their color.

That panzer 3 was lost in the battle of Hunt's Gap, which means it was in torrential rain for a day or two when it was left there.
The photo was taken weeks later. The surrounding area is cultivated fields.
I don't believe it to be dusty.

David

That's Tiger 142 burning in the background.
The photos of it's demolition show it sitting in crumbly moist dirt.



G

When you see it there, tiger 142 has already been in this explosion and is consequently mostly covered in dirt. A very different condition to the Pz3 beside it.

David