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Dioramas: Before Building
Ideas, concepts, and researching your next diorama.
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Diorama Historical Accuracy check
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2018 - 11:33 AM UTC
Hey guys

Before building, just want to double check if my next project has any historical
inaccuracies (wrong uniform, weaponary etc)

The diorama would depict a Heer Panzer Division recon team on eastern front during Winter1943/1944.

The vehicles will include a Dragon 6223 Sdkfz 251/7 Pioneer ver. Ausf D and Dragon 6882 Sdkfz 250/9 Ausf A

Figures will include Alpine 35037 and 35088 as armored car crew. Evolution 35037, 35039, 35040, 35153, two action figures from Dragon 6705 and Meng-HS012r as Grenadiers. I attach all the photos, can anyone point out anything does not look right?

One of my questions is does Panzer Grenadier still wear the
Jackboots (Marschstiefel) as per Meng-HS012r? I think Ankle boots (Schnürschuhe)became more prevalent at that time.

Also for the armored car crew, I believe the driver and vehicle commander were wearing the the same uniform like Panzer crew.

however what about the men handling 20mm gun and MG in the turret (i.e. Sdkfz 250/9)?



Plus two Russian kids.

Alpine 35037


Alpine 35088


Evolution 35037


Evolution 35039


Evolution 35040


Evolution 35153


Dragon 6705


Meng-HS012r
vw8243
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Cork, Ireland
Joined: February 03, 2016
KitMaker: 5 posts
Armorama: 5 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2018 - 02:49 PM UTC
James
I,d say good to go all those boys seem ok as for the (Marschstiefel they were worn through to 45 by replacements and vets ,
maartenboersma
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 10, 2010
KitMaker: 764 posts
Armorama: 742 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2018 - 09:41 PM UTC
All possible ...except for the Dragon figure M43 parka ,he is from the Waffen ss (with MG42)

The Alpine 35088 sitting figure looks a bit under dress compared to all the others who are dressed for colder weather.


As for the men handling 20mm gun and MG in the turret ,just give them a winter jacket/trousers and WH head gear.

.
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2018 - 01:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

All possible ...except for the Dragon figure M43 parka ,he is from the Waffen ss (with MG42)

The Alpine 35088 sitting figure looks a bit under dress compared to all the others who are dressed for colder weather.


As for the men handling 20mm gun and MG in the turret ,just give them a winter jacket/trousers and WH head gear.

.


Thanks mate, was M43 Parke only given to SS units on Russian Front? Is there any chance a WH solider might also wear it? I noticed the Helmet worn by Dragon figure is actually a WH one.
jrutman
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2018 - 01:27 AM UTC
I agree with what Maarten has written. WSS parka for sure. Additionally I would say the guys that have all the combat gear on would look out of place as armoured crewmen. The crews in those types of vehicles generally wore less gear than the standard foot soldier because it was stowed in the tracks. So just ammo and weapons were carried outside the vehicle as a rule.
Of course,there always are exceptions,
J
maartenboersma
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Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: October 10, 2010
KitMaker: 764 posts
Armorama: 742 posts
Posted: Monday, June 04, 2018 - 06:33 AM UTC
[/quote]

Thanks mate, was M43 Parke only given to SS units on Russian Front? Is there any chance a WH solider might also wear it? I noticed the Helmet worn by Dragon figure is actually a WH one.[/quote]

The where made exclusive for the waffen SS never seen one on a WH soldier,
but he could have found one..... it is possible but i would not use him .
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 01:06 AM UTC
Thanks Maarten and Jerry. Very good points, I will not use the Dragon figure with M43 parka.

All the guys handling MG and 20mm will not have their ammo pouches and weapons.

Cheers
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 01:23 AM UTC
I found Miniart 35249 is a good choice. I will exclude the puppy holding panzer crew then. Thanks heaps!!
Naseby
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Slovakia
Joined: October 15, 2010
KitMaker: 825 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 03:10 AM UTC
Marschstiefel - Marching boots are ok, they were produced and supplied to troop for the whole duration of the war and after (both West and East Germany), in both standard and "winter" versions. Spahtruppen - Scout troops are specific, they have more MP40s than standard infantry squads or even Panzergrenadiers. MGs and KAR98s were basically non existent - scouts need to move fast and in cover with compact fire power. Binoculars and pistols are used by NCOs and soldiers in contrast to standard infantry, where they are reserved to Officers. There is some controversy of usage of field caps for better concealment, but I would stick to helmets, as per the german standards for troops present on the HKL (HauptKampfLinie) - main battle line. Oh and also dont forget they have Yellow-ish distinction color (Collar+Shoulder on AFW crew, Shoulds only for foot Scout Squads). Also from what I understand, 3- man team squads were considered most suited for behind the enemy line missions).
hj1985
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New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 06, 2018 - 11:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Marschstiefel - Marching boots are ok, they were produced and supplied to troop for the whole duration of the war and after (both West and East Germany), in both standard and "winter" versions. Spahtruppen - Scout troops are specific, they have more MP40s than standard infantry squads or even Panzergrenadiers. MGs and KAR98s were basically non existent - scouts need to move fast and in cover with compact fire power. Binoculars and pistols are used by NCOs and soldiers in contrast to standard infantry, where they are reserved to Officers. There is some controversy of usage of field caps for better concealment, but I would stick to helmets, as per the german standards for troops present on the HKL (HauptKampfLinie) - main battle line. Oh and also dont forget they have Yellow-ish distinction color (Collar+Shoulder on AFW crew, Shoulds only for foot Scout Squads). Also from what I understand, 3- man team squads were considered most suited for behind the enemy line missions).


I think what you are referring to is "BATTLE RECONNAISSANCE PATROLS (Spahtruppen)" where the Germans send out reconnaissance patrols, consisting of a NCO and three or four men, to get such information of enemy.

What I'd like to depict is a group of Panzer Grenadier ridding on SDKFZ250/251 taking a break during the Combat Patrol (Stosstruppen)

Imagine the 9-men infantry squard on the ride (in the photo) take a break, drinking coffee and chatting around a field stove, etc.






"they have Yellow-ish distinction color (Collar+Shoulder on AFW crew, Shoulds only for foot Scout Squads)" - do you mean the AFV crew should use golden yellow Waffenfarbe colour for Recon troop in stead of pink red on their collar and shoulder board? I think in my case the infantry is ok to use meadow green Grenadier Waffenfarbe colour right?



Naseby
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Slovakia
Joined: October 15, 2010
KitMaker: 825 posts
Armorama: 246 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 09, 2018 - 07:21 AM UTC
Seem I miss-understood the original question. I was thinking that You wanted to portrait a Recon team as-in a recon unit within the Panzer Division. If You want to portrait Panzergrenadiers on a recon mission then forget what I wrote.
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