Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Will Never Buy From Dragon Again
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:47 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The hobby store in my city is quite old, their computer is still from the 80/90s... and the rating is barely over 3 stars on Google, which I find fair as the staffs are very annoying and the environment is horrible.
...



Hmmm...sounds like Udisco!
rmadfire1
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 02:24 AM UTC
That goes for Italeri also, they have horrible customer service, will NEVER buy their junk kits again. I was missing a spruein an Italeri kit, emailed their customer service told them I was missing a sprue, they told me they don't make those type of mistakes and that I had to buy a replacement, trashed the kit, chalk it up as a life lesson. I just hope companies like Dragon and Italeri go out of business, serves them right.
DJ
agtquimi
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 02:40 AM UTC
Seatt and get comfortable yourself, I've been waiting for more than 4 years for some missing, and bad moulded parts of two kits, and I've not received nothing yet.

I send them a message a year, but I have got no answer to the replies

Biggles2
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 04:28 AM UTC
I was told by Dragon Care (USA) that they wouldn't send a replacement part unless they had a returned kit, or one whose box was too crushed to be salable, to take the needed parts from. Never heard from them again.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 05:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

That goes for Italeri also, they have horrible customer service, will NEVER buy their junk kits again. I was missing a spruein an Italeri kit, emailed their customer service told them I was missing a sprue, they told me they don't make those type of mistakes and that I had to buy a replacement, trashed the kit, chalk it up as a life lesson. I just hope companies like Dragon and Italeri go out of business, serves them right.
DJ


Wrong continent. If you were in Europe there would have been no problem. I believe MRC is their importer now? Should have tried them. But I doubt you would have gotten better service.

With few exceptions model companies haven't learned about the need of customer service outside of their home market.

At least it's not something important like a big screen TV or cell phone. Then you'd really be doomed.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 06:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was told by Dragon Care (USA) that they wouldn't send a replacement part unless they had a returned kit, or one whose box was too crushed to be salable, to take the needed parts from. Never heard from them again.



I think this is closer to the truth here than most folks realize. When I worked at Discount Models (a LHS) before they closed (the owner passed away) we were a Dragon distributor, and had several hundred Dragon kits in our warehouse. We'd occasionally have a customer walk in with a missing or defective part. We'd contact "Dragon Care", and see if they had a part on hand-- more often than not, the explanation above is what we'd get-- occasionally, they'd be able to send out a replacement part, but very occasionally. Truth is, they don't stock replacement parts, and the only way to get one is to open a box or bag and rob a complete kit. Merit international uses the same philosophy, but I've found they usually keep kits on hand just for this purpose. If one of our customers had a problem, and we had a kit on hand, we'd do the same thing. Now here's the thing about Dragon--or many other manufacturers--if the kit is OOP, or from a small production run, they are less likely to have a kit to "rob" 9 out of 10 times. This is not a defense of Dragon. It's actually the way many companies operate, but other companies seem to anticipate these problems, and rather than send out all thier stock, they keep some in reserve for such problems. No one should believe manufacturers mold new sprues just so they can solve a kit issue for a customer. I too have become so disillusioned with Dragon that I don't buy any kits until I can see in the box (thankfully I have a nearby LHS that will let me do that), or I've read a positive review here on Kitmaker Network. But even when I worked in a LHS, we found Dragon to be one of the least responsive manufacturers for kit problems. Here in the lower 48, MRC, Testor's, Merit, Squadron, and Stevens seemed to be the best for resolving problems. The three best companies I've ever dealt with for replacement items have been CMR, Special Hobby, and above all Eduard. These were the best for speed and efficiency in dealing with problems. I understand Airfix/Hornby is pretty good too. But if a distributor (which is what Dragon USA is) doesn't have the kit on hand-- you probably won't get your part until the next production run-- and that could be for years. You may be better off trying your hand at scratchbuilding or trying to find another kit.
VR, Russ
Dinocamo
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 08:22 AM UTC
Don't forget Miniart, their customer service is top tier. Email response in 24h, short but clear answer. They even recommend other source for products they don't offer. Also recently, they even offer free replacement parts for the errors on their Panzer III kit. Very clever in my opinion.
brekinapez
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 08:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A few years ago I had a badly warped lower hull to a stug III ausf C/D kit I contacted dragoncare after three emails sending pictures and what not after two months I got the replacement lower hull and I'm in the UK. You have to be very specific and alot of the time it's frustrating going back and forth but they do respond or at least they did, haven't brought a Dragon kit in 6 years or more though so maybe their customer service has gotten worse?



It's likely gotten/getting worse judging from the bulk of experiences here. Truthfully, though, in addition to what Russ said, I don't think plastic kits make up a large segment of Dragon's overall business and it just isn't a priority like it once may have been.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 08:56 AM UTC

Quoted Text


It's likely gotten/getting worse judging from the bulk of experiences here. Truthfully, though, in addition to what Russ said, I don't think plastic kits make up a large segment of Dragon's overall business and it just isn't a priority like it once may have been.



Dragon announced several years ago they were moving into new ventures with the toy and collectible markets, and I think it shows in many of their newer plastic model offerings. It's obvious they no longer take the time to do the research and engineering they once did in manufacturing kits. Their Black Label line has become the "poster boy" for poor authenticity-- they're not so much interested in an accurate kit as they are in just getting a kit to market quickly. The DS track system is less than optimal (although some of their newer kits are going back to the "Magic Track" option I understand). And as mentioned here, their customer service is at times abysmal. I don't believe they will drop the kit model business, but it certainly appears to have taken a back seat, and they seem to be going in a different direction. In my opinion, they are in a small group of model manufacturers who believe there isn't much future in the hobby of constructing model kits, and this is what's ultimately driving thier inattention and business model. But that's just my opinion.
VR, Russ
Nate_W
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Missouri, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 09:21 AM UTC
Yeah, Dragon has definitely changed. I can't remember when exactly it was, but a few years back (I want to say 2012-2014ish because I was just finishing college), they quit doing the awesome diorama ready figure kits with Ron Volstad's art and it was around then they announced a new direction or something and things have never been the same since. I used Dragon Care twice; Once in in 2010 on one of the German Flak Halftracks and they replaced the entire sprue within a week of my receipt, photo and description being sent. The second time, around 2015, they told me they weren't responsible for the missing pieces and I was welcome to purchase a new kit at full retail cost plus shipping with a link they provided. I didn't respond.
firstcircle
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 09:40 AM UTC
I'd have thought that the normal route when you buy a defective item from a shop (in person or on line) is to go back to the vendor and ask for either a replacement, a refund or an alternative. If you think about it, if you bought a shrink wrapped DVD, got it home and the disk wasn't in the box, you'd go back to the supermarket, you wouldn't contact Universal. It's then the shop's issue to deal with it from their supplier. In the case of buying something from Dragon USA that seems to doubly make sense, and is the only fair way for the purchaser, you'd have thought.

Model companies that offer a customer service but then don't actually provide a decent service are, at the very least, muddying the water by asking you to contact them.

Vicious
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 10:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'd have thought that the normal route when you buy a defective item from a shop (in person or on line) is to go back to the vendor and ask for either a replacement, a refund or an alternative. If you think about it, if you bought a shrink wrapped DVD, got it home and the disk wasn't in the box, you'd go back to the supermarket, you wouldn't contact Universal. It's then the shop's issue to deal with it from their supplier. In the case of buying something from Dragon USA that seems to doubly make sense, and is the only fair way for the purchaser, you'd have thought.

Model companies that offer a customer service but then don't actually provide a decent service are, at the very least, muddying the water by asking you to contact them.




I fully agree, in most cases you do not buy from the manufacturer but you buy from the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper buys from the manufacturer,so it is he who should move in your favor

Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 10:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text



I fully agree, in most cases you do not buy from the manufacturer but you buy from the shopkeeper and the shopkeeper buys from the manufacturer,so it is he who should move in your favor




I agree in most cases, however, in most cases, the individual vendor is ill-equipped to replace a part. Also, if it's a clear case of a missing or deformed part, the LHS owner may be able to replace the whole kit only if he has the stock on hand. Most LHS owners I know will do this if the kit has been purchased by a regular customer. However, in cases where the vendor or manufacturer are not at fault, but the customer has broken or lost a part, I think it's up to the vendor to make a choice to support or deny a claim. Having worked in a LHS, I can tell you Dragon was not the most user friendly-- for the vendors or the customers.
VR, Russ
Vicious
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 10:49 AM UTC
It seems clear to me that if the customer has lost / broken a piece are his problems.

But in the USA there are no laws that in case a product is broken or defective obliges the dealer to fix the problem? ... in Europe and Australia it is so'
BunkerBuster
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 11:16 AM UTC
I've never had a problem with missing/damaged parts in a Dragon kit, but here's been my experience with other companies:

Tamiya - I tried for years to get replacements for the missing forward fuselage halves to my 1/32 F-14A kit. After they finally set up shop in the USA, I emailed them about it and had replacements within a few weeks. It only took 15 years!

Hasegawa - Was quite good the last time I used them. I had a 1/48 F-14 kit that had two sprues molded in very brittle plastic. They shipped replacements airmail no questions asked.

Meng - They shorted me a sprue of tracks from their king tiger track set. They seemed pretty skeptical something like this could happen. I had to send pics of the assembled tracks, box, etc. They eventually conceded and shipped me one sprue of tracks.

Testors - Way back in the day, I had an issue with some of the parts in their AC-119K kit. Contacted them via phone and had replacement parts very quickly.
b2nhvi
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 11:45 AM UTC
Had a couple issues years ago and dealt with Dragon USA. After the usual send proof of purchase and such, got my parts in about a week and a half. Even got an e-mail to ask if I'd received my parts. Then they moved their facility ..... Recently I requested replacement decals for a 1/35 Kettenkrad (ones with kit disintegrated in water) Was basically told to f*#K off. Best dealings ... Airfix US. Had a missing or broken part on a 1/72 Spitfire. They sent a whole new kit!
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 12:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

It seems clear to me that if the customer has lost / broken a piece are his problems.

But in the USA there are no laws that in case a product is broken or defective obliges the dealer to fix the problem? ... in Europe and Australia it is so'



Most dealers will do that, but laws vary by locality-- in some areas, buyers are required to contact the manufacturers in case of defect, because it's not possible for dealers to actually "fix" the problem. So it depends on the product, and the ability of the dealer to repair or replace it. Most large US retailers do have generous return programs. But LHS are mostly small businesses which don't have the ability to replace or repair an item. And most large hobby manufacturers generally have thier own replacement programs; i.e., Monogram-Revell, Airfix/Hornby, MRC, Merit International and Eduard (and yes ICM) all come to mind. Dragon has their own policy (which has always involved documentation and proof of purchase). Dragon kits come direct from the distributor (in this case Dragon USA) already shrink wrapped. Therefore, the seller is not necessarily obligated to replace a part. Because our LHS was also a distributor, we kept a decent stock of Dragon kits on hand, so we could replace items if necessary, but most small LHS won't have that ability. We also made it a point to fix a problem with any kit--it was just good business to do so, but we were not "required" to do so by any law, since we didn't make the kit. Having explained that, I can honestly say in the 6 years I worked in our LHS, I only saw three Dragon kits (totally different kits) ever returned for missing or incomplete parts-- and we sold several hundreds of kits in those six years (probably close to a thousand), both domestically and overseas (some were even sold to customers in China!). Dragon's QC used to be one of the best in the industry. We had more kits damaged in shipment than we ever had with missing or mal-formed parts. After documenting any problems to Dragon, they would give us wholesale credit on the next order. We kept the damaged kits for use as extras if needed. Generally speaking, the hobby industry works about the same for all manufacturers and dealers. And most reputable business will replace or refund because it's good business to do so, not by rule of law. A pet peeve of mine is when a kit manufacturer asks for "proof of purchase" if I have a kit with a deformed part. What difference does it make? The kit came from the factory with a deformed part, so when or where I bought it has no bearing on the the issue, and the manufacturer should make good on replacing any defective part. Missing parts may be a different story, and logically could be the fault of the buyer--if you drive a car and lose a hubcap, the manufacturer is under no obligation to replace it for free are they? But in Dragon's case, they seem to have a problem replacing parts for free or for purchase.
VR, Russ
rmadfire1
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 12:28 PM UTC
In my case I did go back to the vendor and they contacted Italeri directly, they told him the exact same thing they told me. Italeri said quote.

Dear sir,

We inform you that our articles are controlled individually and it is very unlikely to be missing or damaged a piece, we suggest you to contact the seller.

Best regards,
Italeri S.p.A

So pretty much calling us a liar...Screw you Italeri! I hope you go bankrupt. The vendor said he ordered a replacement sprue...that was almost a year ago.

Called them again today...still no part from Italeri.
DJ

Vicious
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 12:49 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It seems clear to me that if the customer has lost / broken a piece are his problems.

But in the USA there are no laws that in case a product is broken or defective obliges the dealer to fix the problem? ... in Europe and Australia it is so'



Most dealers will do that, but laws vary by locality-- in some areas, buyers are required to contact the manufacturers in case of defect, because it's not possible for dealers to actually "fix" the problem. So it depends on the product, and the ability of the dealer to repair or replace it. Most large US retailers do have generous return programs. But LHS are mostly small businesses which don't have the ability to replace or repair an item. And most large hobby manufacturers generally have thier own replacement programs; i.e., Monogram-Revell, Airfix/Hornby, MRC, Merit International and Eduard (and yes ICM) all come to mind. Dragon has their own policy (which has always involved documentation and proof of purchase). Dragon kits come direct from the distributor (in this case Dragon USA) already shrink wrapped. Therefore, the seller is not necessarily obligated to replace a part. Because our LHS was also a distributor, we kept a decent stock of Dragon kits on hand, so we could replace items if necessary, but most small LHS won't have that ability. We also made it a point to fix a problem with any kit--it was just good business to do so, but we were not "required" to do so by any law, since we didn't make the kit. Having explained that, I can honestly say in the 6 years I worked in our LHS, I only saw three Dragon kits (totally different kits) ever returned for missing or incomplete parts-- and we sold several hundreds of kits in those six years (probably close to a thousand), both domestically and overseas (some were even sold to customers in China!). Dragon's QC used to be one of the best in the industry. We had more kits damaged in shipment than we ever had with missing or mal-formed parts. After documenting any problems to Dragon, they would give us wholesale credit on the next order. We kept the damaged kits for use as extras if needed. Generally speaking, the hobby industry works about the same for all manufacturers and dealers. And most reputable business will replace or refund because it's good business to do so, not by rule of law. A pet peeve of mine is when a kit manufacturer asks for "proof of purchase" if I have a kit with a deformed part. What difference does it make? The kit came from the factory with a deformed part, so when or where I bought it has no bearing on the the issue, and the manufacturer should make good on replacing any defective part. Missing parts may be a different story, and logically could be the fault of the buyer--if you drive a car and lose a hubcap, the manufacturer is under no obligation to replace it for free are they? But in Dragon's case, they seem to have a problem replacing parts for free or for purchase.
VR, Russ



Here it is federal law this means that is the same from state to state and says so "In Australia, consumers have a legal right to obtain a refund from a business if the goods are purchased, or not fit for purpose or do not match the seller's description bla bla bla.... " or fix the problem.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 12:55 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In my case I did go back to the vendor and they contacted Italeri directly, they told him the exact same thing they told me. Italeri said quote.

Dear sir,

We inform you that our articles are controlled individually and it is very unlikely to be missing or damaged a piece, we suggest you to contact the seller.

Best regards,
Italeri S.p.A

So pretty much calling us a liar...Screw you Italeri! I hope you go bankrupt. The vendor said he ordered a replacement sprue...that was almost a year ago.

Called them again today...still no part from Italeri.
DJ




Just a note here-- If I missed it in any of these postings, forgive me. But It would help to know the exact kit we are all talking about, when it was purchased, and from whom. The manufacturers of kits seldom sell direct to the customer, and there is usually a distributor between the manufacturer and the seller (for instance, most LHS' will buy from a regional distributor, such as Stevens International, Squadron, or Merit here in the US (Hobbico is now defunct, they used to be the Italeri distributor, at one time, Testor's distributed Italeri too). It may help to contact the distributor and see if they can help with the problem, rather than go to the foreign manufacturer (there are lots of exceptions such as Eduard, which has a great CS department). The distributors often have more pull than an individual customer, or may be able to solve the problem directly. It's also not a bad idea to brush up on those scratchbuilding skills-- I can't tell you how many parts I've built to replace missing, deformed or "screwed up" parts over the years-- of course if we're talking about entire tank hulls and airplane fuselages, that may be a different story (I once bought a 1/48 K & B Breuget 14, only to find I had two left hand fuselage parts and no right hand part!-- since the kit was OOP, I was up the proverbial creek, but later I managed to find an Aurora version of the same kit, I'm still contemplating VAC forming a new fuselage half!).
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Here it is federal law this means that is the same from state to state and says so "In Australia, consumers have a legal right to obtain a refund from a business if the goods are purchased, or not fit for purpose or do not match the seller's description bla bla bla.... " or fix the problem.



We have similar "legal rights" here in the US, under the Cunsumer Protection Act, and there are organizations that will assist consumers with claims against businesses, if one is willing to go that route through the courts. But that's far different from actually pursuing a lawsuit against a small business like a LHS over a matter of a missing or deformed part. At most, it might be a case for a "small claims" court, but it certainly would not make it to the Federal or even state court level over the matter of a missing part from a model kit. If it was demonstrated that it was an intentional act, by a manufacturer or a seller, that might be a different story of a criminal nature, which would certainly be prosecuted.
VR, Russ
18Bravo
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 01:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text

In my case I did go back to the vendor and they contacted Italeri directly, they told him the exact same thing they told me. Italeri said quote.

Dear sir,

We inform you that our articles are controlled individually and it is very unlikely to be missing or damaged a piece, we suggest you to contact the seller.

Best regards,
Italeri S.p.A

So pretty much calling us a liar...Screw you Italeri! I hope you go bankrupt. The vendor said he ordered a replacement sprue...that was almost a year ago.

Called them again today...still no part from Italeri.
DJ




I'm not saying your experience isn't true, but consider this:

Several years ago on M-L, someone needed a part for a conversion he was building, and it was actually suggested to him that he contact the company to say the sprue was missing.

I'm sure this happens quite a bit.

I've built untold numbers of kit furniture, ranging from Ikea cabinets in Germany (laugh, but their stuff back in the mid 80's was the shyte) to computer work stations from various manufacturers, to work benches and tables from Harbor Freight. In each case, there was never so much as a single screw missing. We're talking about the particle board, hinges, slides for drawers, handles, corner joiners, dowels... And now that reminds me my dad and I used to assemble Heathkit radios and televisions back in the 70's. Again, never a single missing resistor, capacitor, or screw. Nothing.

So I think about ALL of these kits, with their missing sprues, and wonder how on earth QA could overlook such a simple thing (I mean, really, how many sprues are there to keep track of, compared to the parts in a Heathkit TV?) Could it happen? Oh I guess once in a great while. More likely something else is going on. Ever see those Homies Toys at Walmart (of course you haven't, you wouldn't be caught dead 1. in Walmart, and 2. looking at Homies stuff)and notice someone has very slyly taken their favorite character out of the package? And there's no visible tear on it either. Could it be that sprues are getting removed AFTER they leave the factory by the sprue fairy?

Now back to the model companies. Again, I don't doubt anyone's story here, but consider again, you have people suggesting that a guy lie and say a sprue is missing, (so he's apparently done it) and the second dude does the same thing. I wonder how many people read that thread, or worse, came up with this genius little trick on their own?
Model companies are not charities, and I suppose at some point you would say, dude, show me some proof that it was us. After all, they DO hire QA people. I've seen them myself at a couple of different Tamiya locations in Japan. They all seemed like they were taking their jobs seriously. Of course that was before the advent of the iPhone....
Kevlar06
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 02:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text



"...So I think about ALL of these kits, with their missing sprues, and wonder how on earth QA could overlook such a simple thing..."

"....Model companies are not charities, and I suppose at some point you would say, dude, show me some proof that it was us. After all, they DO hire QA people. I've seen them myself at a couple of different Tamiya locations in Japan. They all seemed like they were taking their jobs seriously...".



Firstly, let me say this, regardless of the industry, mistakes can and will be made, it's just a matter of numbers and probabilities. QA folks and QC folks can't see every product in a large volume production facility. I'd like to share a story of my own from Eduard. A few years back, I purchased thier "new" 1/32 ME 109E. I'd read a review by Rowan Baylis over on Aeroscale with photos of the kit, it looked superb. When I got my kit, I found it was missing part 9, a left hand wing flap. I looked everywhere, thinking I'd lost it, which is strange for me as I don't take the parts out of the bag until I'm ready to use them. I went back to Rowan's review, and noticed in the sprue shots, the same part was detached from his sprues that were otherwise intact. I contacted Rowan who told me he hadn't noticed, but it was strange that single part had become detached. I emailed Eduard, which replied within 24 hours that my part was in the mail. Evidently, as parts were being packed in separate bags, that particular part was getting knocked off the sprue due to its location. Unfortunately, thier CS guys who sent me the part read the Sprue number upside down, so I received part "6" instead of part "9". Another email to Eduard and I received the replacement part within 48 hours air freight from Poland. So manufacturers do make maistakes, thier equipment does short shots, warped or damaged parts will occur, but this is thankfully the exception in most cases. The quality of customer service is what counts. Now when I buy an Eduard kit, I know I'll receive quality CS if I have a problem that I can't fix. But as the point of this thread shows, not all companies provide this service. So, buyer beware, and thanks to Kitmaker Network for allowing us to "spread the word".
VR, Russ
Petition2God
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 03:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

The last time I used Dragoncare, it took 8 months and me messaging them several times to get what I was mussing. Their customer service sucks




if these stories are true, and all info has been delivered to DragonCare as requested then not only DragonCare s..cks but the whole of Dragon; No decent company allows its customer care to work like this.



I am surpised by their lack of reply. I used Dragon Care USA twice now and my issues were resolved and had replacement parts within two weeks of first opening a ticket. I hope this is just a isolated case and not the future.

Mark



Mark's experience sounds like an exception rather than the norm. Three times I have dealt with Dragon Care in the past 10 years, I had to wait anywhere from 6 months to 10 months to get the missing part. The key was persistence.

I think I have dealt with so many companies like Dragon nowadays that it is no longer a surprise... They are becoming like government entities and airlines nowadays. At least they don't beat you up or kill you.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, June 14, 2018 - 04:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text


So I think about ALL of these kits, with their missing sprues, and wonder how on earth QA could overlook such a simple thing . . .



I've been building models for about 45 years and have bought well over 1,000 kits, and I had but a single case where a sprue was missing. I've wondered myself how it is that some people can report on nearly every manufacturer's customer service performance when replacing sprues. What singularly unlucky guys they must be, always ending up with the 1-in-50,000 kit that is missing a sprue. I wouldn't want to get on an airplane with them . . .

KL