Some time in the past I saw a picture of a field built T-34 bridge tank. It was a very poor picture and showed what seemed to be a turret less T-34 with simple beams welded to the hull to support wood beams or logs.
Does anyone have any pictures to share, or more about it? I have the T-34 book, but it lacks any good reference on the modification. Maybe I can fake it, but it would be nice to find that picture again.
Hosted by Jacques Duquette
T-34 Bridge tank.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, July 28, 2018 - 02:17 AM UTC
m4sherman
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Posted: Sunday, July 29, 2018 - 06:06 AM UTC
What I think it looked like.
m4sherman
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 02:52 AM UTC
While waiting for some paint and 3D print parts I took a try at the frame. And lost power just as I got it assembled and was unable to do anything until this morning. So, it came out crooked.
After a little grumbling I did a little thinking and remember a book saying something about how some of the bridge tanks were just a tank with beams on the sides.
That made no sense, so I decided to put a T-34 over another and see how it looked. So, it can make sense. I'll lay out version simpler later, after I get over losing 6USD and my only plastic angle iron strips the right size.
After a little grumbling I did a little thinking and remember a book saying something about how some of the bridge tanks were just a tank with beams on the sides.
That made no sense, so I decided to put a T-34 over another and see how it looked. So, it can make sense. I'll lay out version simpler later, after I get over losing 6USD and my only plastic angle iron strips the right size.
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:05 AM UTC
Can't help with any info but I do find this very interesting. I will be following to see how this turns out.
srmalloy
Joined: April 15, 2012
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:23 AM UTC
I found a miniatures gaming wiki (http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/page/7780149/BKC%20Russian%20Armour%20%28summer%29) that has, about 3/4 of the way down the page, a T-34 bridgelayer miniature (MTU-34) that the page author describes as being based on the two photographs above the pictures of the miniature. Neither photograph has much detail about the actual deployment mechanism. One of the items in the description is that it apparently has a T-70 turret replacing the standard T-34 turret.
Update: I found a Czech site with an additional image of the vehicle in the middle of bridge deployment:
http://www.t34.estranky.sk/clanky/mt-34.html
The page text, auto-translated through Chrome, states that this vehicle was a conversion ordered from ČKD Sokolovo in 1952, but not tested until 1961. Production ran from 1961-1963, with more than 126 produced. So this isn't a WWII bridgelayer conversion.
Update: I found a Czech site with an additional image of the vehicle in the middle of bridge deployment:
http://www.t34.estranky.sk/clanky/mt-34.html
The page text, auto-translated through Chrome, states that this vehicle was a conversion ordered from ČKD Sokolovo in 1952, but not tested until 1961. Production ran from 1961-1963, with more than 126 produced. So this isn't a WWII bridgelayer conversion.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Can't help with any info but I do find this very interesting. I will be following to see how this turns out.
It should be interesting. I had to order up another T-34/76 from Academy, their /85 kit has a larger turret ring, and more Evergreen angles.
marcb
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:52 AM UTC
Does the pic in the wiki show a war or post war version?
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 05:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I found a miniatures gaming wiki (http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/page/7780149/BKC%20Russian%20Armour%20%28summer%29) that has, about 3/4 of the way down the page, a T-34 bridgelayer miniature (MTU-34) that the page author describes as being based on the two photographs above the pictures of the miniature. Neither photograph has much detail about the actual deployment mechanism. One of the items in the description is that it apparently has a T-70 turret replacing the standard T-34 turret.
I saw that one on a Google, and also a 1/16th scale one that is workable. Both are after WWII.
From the accounts I read, and remember, makeshift bridge T-34's were used several times. If it worked you would think the propaganda clowns would be there to document it.
My thoughts are a simple structure with wood beams mounted.
As said by an engineer on a show about how things fail, keep it simple stupid.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 06:43 AM UTC
Don't know if these are new to you....
This version was called TM-34 (TM = Танк-мост = bridge tank)
(from this article)
H.P.
This version was called TM-34 (TM = Танк-мост = bridge tank)
(from this article)
H.P.
marcb
Joined: March 25, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 07:49 AM UTC
Steve Zaloga mentions in one of his books that the WWII bridging tank was just a turretless T-34.
Fe two tanks would be driven in a river, so other tanks could drive across these tanks to cross the river.
Fe two tanks would be driven in a river, so other tanks could drive across these tanks to cross the river.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 08:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't know if these are new to you....
H.P.
Had not found that! Thanks, very interesting.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 08:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Steve Zaloga mentions in one of his books that the WWII bridging tank was just a turretless T-34.
Fe two tanks would be driven in a river, so other tanks could drive across these tanks to cross the river.
I do remember that, but I don't think I had that book. Another version was that several tanks would leap frog, one over the other and several used in a line to cross a river.
My intent is a tank made to cross one of the anti-tank ditches the Germans dug.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 09:08 AM UTC
A simpler version I think could be made in a tank repair shop using plates cut from damaged tanks. 1mm thick sheet cut to size would be close to 1/35 of the 40mm hull sides on T-34's. Add beams for a road deck and done.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 09:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Steve Zaloga mentions in one of his books that the WWII bridging tank was just a turretless T-34.
Fe two tanks would be driven in a river, so other tanks could drive across these tanks to cross the river.
The only picture I found of an actual bridge T-34, in the T-34 Mythic Weapon book, is a turret less tank that seems to have had logs across the hull so a tank could drive over it. This was a single tank, and matches the story I read a long time ago. I'm thinking about that now, and might have a version 3 in mind! Something a little cruder, but might work.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 10:41 AM UTC
Beams over thicker beams would be quick and easy to do in a field workshop. Maybe not so good for very long, but would work for a few tanks.
I'm going to go with this version, as it fits my ideas better. Now I need to find some wood that will work.
I'm going to go with this version, as it fits my ideas better. Now I need to find some wood that will work.
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 12:16 PM UTC
Are you doing a simple angle arm for the front & rear and nothing in the middle?
What distance are you using from the front beam to rear beam?
I think some bolts through the planks and beams.
Overall this seems like it would be a realistic down and dirty anti-tank ditching tank T-34.
What distance are you using from the front beam to rear beam?
I think some bolts through the planks and beams.
Overall this seems like it would be a realistic down and dirty anti-tank ditching tank T-34.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 01:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Are you doing a simple angle arm for the front & rear and nothing in the middle?
What distance are you using from the front beam to rear beam?
I think some bolts through the planks and beams.
Overall this seems like it would be a realistic down and dirty anti-tank ditching tank T-34.
This is just a simple layout picture. The planks and beams will be bolted together, and to the attachment points on the hull. I plan on using 3/8 x 3/8 beams and 3/16 x 3/8 planks, which is 9.5mm x 9.5mm and 4.76mm x 9.5mm. That would be 13 x 13 and 6.5 x 13, or 334mm x 334mm 167mm x 334mm in full size. Sizes are rounded down. I think timber that size would hold up strong enough to get the job done.
The distance between the beams is a problem. I think it would be acceptable under the circumstances, but I wouldn't want to be the driver of the first tank over!
I'm going out to look at the craft wood, and see what there is. Maybe there will be a better size.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, July 31, 2018 - 03:59 PM UTC
After dinner out with the family, then a trip to the craft store:
Beams from a railroad bridge? This was what they had at the craft store, and it will work. I keep forgetting the distance from the turret deck back is longer than the deck forward. If I move the front beam forward it would put the long beams off center. An idea is to move the center beam forward and add short beams between center and rear. Or, live with it.
My OT-34 fits nicely on the bridge. Still need to think about the front and rear supports. Maybe a brace like in my second design.
Beams from a railroad bridge? This was what they had at the craft store, and it will work. I keep forgetting the distance from the turret deck back is longer than the deck forward. If I move the front beam forward it would put the long beams off center. An idea is to move the center beam forward and add short beams between center and rear. Or, live with it.
My OT-34 fits nicely on the bridge. Still need to think about the front and rear supports. Maybe a brace like in my second design.
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
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Posted: Wednesday, August 01, 2018 - 05:14 AM UTC
I don't know if a simple L bracket would work, I am thinking something like an inverted post bracket.
http://www.heartlandpermacolumn.com/news/heartland-perma-column-introduces-new-5x5-post-frame-building-bracket/
TT or U shaped, from the front or back of the tank you would see two vertical post vs seeing the posts from the side of the tank.
http://www.heartlandpermacolumn.com/news/heartland-perma-column-introduces-new-5x5-post-frame-building-bracket/
TT or U shaped, from the front or back of the tank you would see two vertical post vs seeing the posts from the side of the tank.
KoSprueOne
Joined: March 05, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2018 - 03:18 AM UTC
Very interesting project.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2018 - 03:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't know if a simple L bracket would work, I am thinking something like an inverted post bracket.
http://www.heartlandpermacolumn.com/news/heartland-perma-column-introduces-new-5x5-post-frame-building-bracket/
TT or U shaped, from the front or back of the tank you would see two vertical post vs seeing the posts from the side of the tank.
I have been thinking it over, and it occurred to me that a brace to hold the bridge deck front and rear, with a center support would take less effort than a cross beam with supports. A simple dual angle iron post (a wide U), braced to stop front to back movement, would be simple to make and install.
More or less my first design with all the extra angle iron removed and replaced with three simple posts.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, August 04, 2018 - 03:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Very interesting project.
It is interesting how trying to make it simple takes so much planning!
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