Hi there
I was wondering about zimmerit on the Bergepanthers ausf D's. I'm currently working on the Takom new release of the ausf D, which I thought, was to have zimmerit, but looking through the pictures on the internet and in my books, I'm not so sure any more.
I know it can be hard to see zimmerit on old and blured pictures, but some of the vehicles looks very smooth on the surfice.
So if any of you have some answeres to this, please let me know.
TIA Jacob
Hosted by Darren Baker
Zimmerit on Bergepanthers?
Posted: Tuesday, August 14, 2018 - 10:55 PM UTC
Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 01:07 AM UTC
The Ausf. D would not have had zimmerit from the factory. However, in November 1943 zimmerit was authorized to be applied by the field workshops for vehicles that did not receive at the factory.
So, you can apply depending on what timeline you are using for your build.
So, you can apply depending on what timeline you are using for your build.
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 01:15 AM UTC
jfeenstra
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 02:38 AM UTC
You need to do a bit more research as to what the Takom kit represents and the Panzer Tracts book is probably the most up to date research.
This Bergepanther Ausf.D (Umbau) that the kit represents was built by Seibert between July 1944 and March 1945 using rebuilt hulls. Note that the nomenclature "Bergepanther Ausf.D" is not the same as "Panther Ausf.D"; it was a specific Bergepanther designation and the re-built hulls could possibly be from any Panther (D, A,or even G I suppose). Having said that, the kit includes the letterbox MG opening and it looks like the second periscope in front of the radio operator so it is a D or possibly an early A hull.
The application of zimmerit typically occurred between November 1943 and September 1944. Ausf D hulls/Panthers were produced until September '43 and Ausf As until Aug '44.
Therefore, there are a number of options:
1) If it's a D hull, it did not have zimmerit applied when originally built, however if it was re-built as a Bergepanther prior to October 1944, Seibert may have applied zimmerit to it (or not). Re-built Ds by Seibert after September 1944 would not have had it.
2) If it's an A hull, chances are it had zimmerit when it was originally built as a Panther.
3) And as noted, there is always the possibility of a field applied application.
The first picture that Frenchy posted is definitely of this Bergepanther D (Umbau), since it has both the tow bar and lifting hoist brackets. It is difficult to say from this view if it is a D or an A hull, but the zimmerit definitely looks factory applied.
The second picture appears to be a standard Bergepanther Ausf A (not a Bergepanther D Umbau) that's missing its superstructure, as it carries the mount for the 20mm KwK on the glacis and also appears to have the winch rollers mounted on the back plate. Not all Ausf.As carried a winch and spade.
Jon
This Bergepanther Ausf.D (Umbau) that the kit represents was built by Seibert between July 1944 and March 1945 using rebuilt hulls. Note that the nomenclature "Bergepanther Ausf.D" is not the same as "Panther Ausf.D"; it was a specific Bergepanther designation and the re-built hulls could possibly be from any Panther (D, A,or even G I suppose). Having said that, the kit includes the letterbox MG opening and it looks like the second periscope in front of the radio operator so it is a D or possibly an early A hull.
The application of zimmerit typically occurred between November 1943 and September 1944. Ausf D hulls/Panthers were produced until September '43 and Ausf As until Aug '44.
Therefore, there are a number of options:
1) If it's a D hull, it did not have zimmerit applied when originally built, however if it was re-built as a Bergepanther prior to October 1944, Seibert may have applied zimmerit to it (or not). Re-built Ds by Seibert after September 1944 would not have had it.
2) If it's an A hull, chances are it had zimmerit when it was originally built as a Panther.
3) And as noted, there is always the possibility of a field applied application.
The first picture that Frenchy posted is definitely of this Bergepanther D (Umbau), since it has both the tow bar and lifting hoist brackets. It is difficult to say from this view if it is a D or an A hull, but the zimmerit definitely looks factory applied.
The second picture appears to be a standard Bergepanther Ausf A (not a Bergepanther D Umbau) that's missing its superstructure, as it carries the mount for the 20mm KwK on the glacis and also appears to have the winch rollers mounted on the back plate. Not all Ausf.As carried a winch and spade.
Jon
Frenchy
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 02:57 AM UTC
Thanks for the info Jon. I had relied on the accompanying captions. Looks like I was 50% off the mark
H.P.
H.P.
Scarred
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Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 03:30 AM UTC
Don't know what model it is
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/tanks/bergepanther/Bergepanther_train.jpg
And a few more here
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/bergepanther/
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/tanks/bergepanther/Bergepanther_train.jpg
And a few more here
https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/bergepanther/
Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2018 - 09:21 PM UTC
Thank you all for your answers, it's been very helpfull
Jacob
Jacob
Removed by original poster on 08/17/18 - 02:17:24 (GMT).
CmdrCody
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Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 04:02 AM UTC
Sorry for posting. I misread the post.
jfeenstra
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 04:42 AM UTC
What does this have to do with Bergepanthers? The pictures/book you are showing is about Bergetiger (P)s.
brekinapez
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Posted: Saturday, August 18, 2018 - 05:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What does this have to do with Bergepanthers? The pictures/book you are showing is about Bergetiger (P)s.
lol
I too wish to know!