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Chosin Reservoir Documentary
Simple64
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Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 09:37 PM UTC
I recently watched the first part of this doco & in the start credits there is colour footage of either an M26 or M46 which seems to have a red/brown primer or maybe touch up paint? Any ideas on this?
YOUTUBE LINK. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH-xJxBNuVM
at about 23 seconds in.
Just found it interesting.
Scarred
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Posted: Thursday, September 06, 2018 - 10:29 PM UTC
Doesn't look the right shade to be red lead primer but that could be due to the old film.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 12:35 AM UTC
Similar scheme on a M46 :



Maybe on these as well :





Full size

H.P.
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 01:58 AM UTC
Rust?
Tank1812
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 02:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Rust?



I think that is correct. If I recall in Marine Corps Tank battles in Korea by Ed Gilbert, the well deck aboard the Navy ship was flooded in transit. The radios and ammo where toast. I would have to reread that section to confirm. It happened a few times so I might have era wrong.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 02:43 AM UTC
The first photo looks definitely like a painted surface-- perhaps a poor quality shade of OD which has faded out like the difference between British aircraft PC10 and PC12 colors during WWI, which started as green and then faded to chocolate brown. The second two photos look like a dirt "wash" to me. Having spent three years in Korea, I can tell you that during the first part of the summer there is an incredible amount of dust generated by armored vehicles on back roads. This layer of dust coats everything on the top of the vehicle. When the Monsoon starts in August, this dirt is washed down over the sides of vehicles, and can form a thick reddish "stain" in places (soil in Korea has an earth brown to reddish appearance, depending on where you are). Then, when this coating freezes in the winter, it can be an almost "paint like surface". Adding to that is the "dryness" factor-- the sub-freezing cold weather coming out of Siberia has a tendency to dry everything out, which then adds even more dust until there is more moisture present-- which washes it down over the sides. This cycle can go on for weeks, because in combat nobody is worried about cleaning, and if they do, it might only be a specific area that gets wiped down with a mop or rag. Of course, I could be completely off-- and this could be some attempt at touch up or camouflage applied at the unit level, at least in the first photo, but I think the second and third photos are just plain dirt. The first is some kind of paint. As for rust, I believe there is only one vehicle that is a USMC vehicle-- the first is definitely an Army M-46, as evidenced by the serial number. So they would not have been in the "well deck". And having worked with the Marine and Navy Amphib folks for three years, (I was the Army test officer at DPG working on Navy and Marine Amphibious projects), I never saw that much rust on any of thier M-60A1s or LVTP7s, except on the running gear.
VR, Russ
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 03:07 AM UTC
On a side note, some Korea War Sherman tanks had a two-tone camo. This one belonged to the 72nd Tank Battalion :


H.P.
Tank1812
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 04:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Rust?



I think that is correct. If I recall in Marine Corps Tank battles in Korea by Ed Gilbert, the well deck aboard the Navy ship was flooded in transit. The radios and ammo where toast. I would have to reread that section to confirm. It happened a few times so I might have era wrong.



To the original question. I don't know if we mix and match the video and still shots. Nice photos though. Marines did not have or use the M46 till the summer of 51 after Chosin. Prior to Pusan landing, 14 M26 were in a flooded well deck with 5' of sea water as they left SD. One was switched in Korea. Gilbert does not mention who's stock it came from. During WW2 and believe later Marines would pull from Army stock when needed. Since I believe those are the same tanks 1st Tanks used at both Pusan and Chosin, there was no mention of how or if the tanks where cleaned after the flooding, only new ammo and dried out radios. The rust idea seemed plausible. I don't recall reading about any mud camo or otherwise being applied to Marine Korean War tanks but was just skimming this time and may have missed that detail.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 06:10 AM UTC
Also have to ask— is this “colorized” film after the fact? The Sherman photo sure looks like it was, but you can’t really tell for sure.
VR, Russ
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 06:31 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Sherman photo sure looks like it was, but you can’t really tell for sure.



As far as I know, this picture is original, not colorized...But I may be wrong You'll find a few more pics here :

http://thechive.com/2017/04/27/color-images-shows-brave-reality-of-the-korean-war-44-photos/

More Korea war color slides :

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums

H.P.
Simple64
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 09:56 AM UTC
Having another look at the footage I am wondering if it is remnants of waterproofing sealant for transport by sea?
I can see a line of it going across the top of the front hull & around the bow machine gun.
The star looks to be freshly painted over some other marking. I can see "5 TK" on the glacis as well.
On the first photo Frenchy posted it seems to be around the shell ejector port on the turret thus my thinking it to be some sort of sealant.

On a side note my Dad served in Korea with 3RAR & never said much except how "bloody" cold it was in the winter.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 11:52 AM UTC
Yep, coldest I’ve ever been anywhere (including Europe and extreme N. America AKA North Bay Ontario and Anchorage/Fairbanks Alaska) was in Korea— minus -20F December 21st ‘87 on the DMZ. Next day, I flew out in leave to Hawaii!! What a difference— I had to swap out my winter uniform in Okinawa, where it was a balmy 78F. I returned to ROK on 5 Jan ‘88, where it had dropped to -18F on the DMZ, only to find out the heater in my tent had been stolen while I was in Hawaii! Guess someone figured I’d warned up enough on leave!
VR, Russ
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, September 07, 2018 - 11:32 PM UTC
Another Korean War M46 (maybe from the 245th Tank Battalion of the 45th Infantry Division). The two-tone camo looks real to me



Full size

H.P.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 01:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Another Korean War M46 (maybe from the 245th Tank Battalion of the 45th Infantry Division). The two-tone camo looks real to me



Yeah . . . Why was camouflage pattern painting considered impossible by the OP?

KL
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 01:34 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yep, coldest I’ve ever been anywhere (including Europe and extreme N. America AKA North Bay Ontario and Anchorage/Fairbanks Alaska) was in Korea— minus -20F December 21st ‘87 on the DMZ.



I've been in -22F while in my yard here outside of Pittsburgh. No threat of anyone shooting at me though.

KL
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 03:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yep, coldest I’ve ever been anywhere (including Europe and extreme N. America AKA North Bay Ontario and Anchorage/Fairbanks Alaska) was in Korea— minus -20F December 21st ‘87 on the DMZ.



I've been in -22F while in my yard here outside of Pittsburgh. No threat of anyone shooting at me though.

KL



Yes, but here’s the difference— spending an hour or two in sub zero temps is a lot different than spending 24 hours or a week in sub zero temps. And it gets colder at night too. You get used to it (sort of), after a while, but must take “warm up” breaks. Those guys in Chosin didn’t get that opportunity. My Uncle, USMC 1LT Howard Foor, was on Chesty Puller’s security detail and was sent forward to scout a new position for the HQ when the Chinese attacked. He was killed there. I can’t imagine what he went through, there’s a reason they called them “the frozen Chosin”. I at least had a tent, and for a while a heater!
VR, Russ
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 04:11 AM UTC
I got to Korea in late June 91 and it was hot, in the high 90's thru July. It was so humid that the two books of stamps I'd brought over glued themselves together and all my envelopes glued themselves shut. I was on the DMZ the second week of Jan 92 when it hit -25 one night while I was in the tower. I had a no shaving profile due to a bad case of chicken pox I had caught the last week of 91 and my scarf which I had wrapped around my face froze to my beard.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 05:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Yes, but here’s the difference— spending an hour or two in sub zero temps is a lot different than spending 24 hours or a week in sub zero temps.



No doubt.

KL
Simple64
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Posted: Saturday, September 08, 2018 - 10:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Yep, coldest I’ve ever been anywhere (including Europe and extreme N. America AKA North Bay Ontario and Anchorage/Fairbanks Alaska) was in Korea— minus -20F December 21st ‘87 on the DMZ.



I've been in -22F while in my yard here outside of Pittsburgh. No threat of anyone shooting at me though.

KL



Yes, but here’s the difference— spending an hour or two in sub zero temps is a lot different than spending 24 hours or a week in sub zero temps. And it gets colder at night too. You get used to it (sort of), after a while, but must take “warm up” breaks. Those guys in Chosin didn’t get that opportunity. My Uncle, USMC 1LT Howard Foor, was on Chesty Puller’s security detail and was sent forward to scout a new position for the HQ when the Chinese attacked. He was killed there. I can’t imagine what he went through, there’s a reason they called them “the frozen Chosin”. I at least had a tent, and for a while a heater!
VR, Russ



Sorry to hear about your Uncle Russ.
My Dad was lucky. He got hit with mortar fragments when they where doing a night patrol across the Imjin river. wounded in both legs & head which temporarily blinded him.
After being treated at an Indian field hospital he was sent back to Japan for further treatment. After recovery they sent him to mortar school & he qualified as an FFO then straight back to the lines.
He told me that the hospital in Japan had a separate caged off area for all the blokes with various diseases of the social kind.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Sunday, September 09, 2018 - 06:07 AM UTC
It was a long time ago, but my Aunt never re-married. On a side note, the UN was able to recover my Uncle's remains, and he is buried in Chillicothe Ohio. He was evacuated from southeast of the Chosin reservoir to the port of Hungnam, where the UN had a temporary cemetery. When the UN abandoned the Hungnam Port in 1951, the cemetery was left to the N. Koreans and Chinese. In 1953, when the Armistice was signed, the Chinese allowed the UN to recover the bodies buried there. This is a little known fact of the Chosin campaign. It's also interesting to note that many of the Chinese combatants were US trained and equipped, and had fought during WWII with the allies against the Japanese, so there were incidents where the Chinese had respect for the US and UN troops. The N. Koreans on the other hand were very resentful, which is why many of the MIAs from around the Chosin reservoir have not been recovered to this day. A few years ago CILHI was allowed to do a recovery mission in the area, and recovered some remains, but there are many more which have not been recovered.. Maybe with the recent "thawing" of relations, more will eventually return home. .
VR, Russ
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