AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
True Color Paint
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 20, 2018 - 08:00 AM UTC
When these first hit the shelves, I had some negative things to say about them. For some reason, they kept clogging my brush. I still don't know why. Anyway, I dusted off a couple of bottles and they sprayed beautifully! Just wanted to recognize my ignorance.
brekinapez
Georgia, United States
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 20, 2018 - 08:40 AM UTC
Did you do something different this time, you think?
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 20, 2018 - 12:35 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Did you do something different this time, you think?
Nothing that I can think of.
Szmann
Netherlands Antilles
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 01:06 AM UTC
I have a whole batch of Tru-Color paints for testing and I was pleasantly surprised with them so far. Soon I will shoot a video presentation with my tests which will be published on YT.
Here few of my finds:
They are solvent based acrylics. The manufacturer recommends acetone for diluting, but I discovered they work very good with MLT. Although the manufacturer recommends to be sprayed straight from the bottle, I dilute them 3:1 for smoothness. The paints are very rich in pigment and the coverage is excellent, even with light colors.
So far I have tested the high gloss range and the pearlescent range. The high gloss isn't all that glossy, it dries rather satin, but takes excellent the clear coat:
The pearlescent ones are more glossy and they apply really smooth if applied like Alclad paints:
Other observations: some are thicker than the others; for TCP 010 black I need to increase slightly the air pressure, but those are designed for both brushing and airbrushing.
The only one I didn't like so far is the brushable metallic range, whose flake is really HUGE and I didn't fall for it, but it's a matter of taste after all.
They are very resilient even on bare metal and easy to sand.
I'm suspecting your airbrush was clogging because you still had some alcohol / water in the a/b. In contact with water, TCP paints create emulsion and "muck up".
Cheers!
Gabriel
Here few of my finds:
They are solvent based acrylics. The manufacturer recommends acetone for diluting, but I discovered they work very good with MLT. Although the manufacturer recommends to be sprayed straight from the bottle, I dilute them 3:1 for smoothness. The paints are very rich in pigment and the coverage is excellent, even with light colors.
So far I have tested the high gloss range and the pearlescent range. The high gloss isn't all that glossy, it dries rather satin, but takes excellent the clear coat:
The pearlescent ones are more glossy and they apply really smooth if applied like Alclad paints:
Other observations: some are thicker than the others; for TCP 010 black I need to increase slightly the air pressure, but those are designed for both brushing and airbrushing.
The only one I didn't like so far is the brushable metallic range, whose flake is really HUGE and I didn't fall for it, but it's a matter of taste after all.
They are very resilient even on bare metal and easy to sand.
I'm suspecting your airbrush was clogging because you still had some alcohol / water in the a/b. In contact with water, TCP paints create emulsion and "muck up".
Cheers!
Gabriel
retiredyank
Arkansas, United States
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 08:35 AM UTC
It may be that a drop of water was left, in my brush. I clean them, with an ultrasonic cleaner in a lacquer thinner bath. Then, they are flushed, with water or ammonia impregnated water. I am at somewhat of a quandary, in that I am transitioning to AK's Real Colors(very user friendly); but would like to explore Tru-Color further. If I have time, I will attempt to mix the two brands. The word "acetone" frightens me. I have chipped a tip by using acetone, in the past. However, if MLT works, I will go that route.
sgtreef
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 01:46 PM UTC
Can they be applied over Tamiya paint , that was put on with Alcohol ?
Reason why I got into the acrylics , was to get away from most solvent based paints.
And Vallejo sprays good with their acrylic thinner, thought I would throw that in.
But I do shoot Tamiya sometimes with Lacquer thinner, Gunze Mr color Leveling thinner.
Cheers
Jeff
Reason why I got into the acrylics , was to get away from most solvent based paints.
And Vallejo sprays good with their acrylic thinner, thought I would throw that in.
But I do shoot Tamiya sometimes with Lacquer thinner, Gunze Mr color Leveling thinner.
Cheers
Jeff
Szmann
Netherlands Antilles
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 02:05 PM UTC
Hi, Jeff.
I don't see why not! I've never tried with TCP paint over acrylics but I constantly use solvent base polyurethane over acrylics, diluted with the same MLT. No issue whatsoever!
I'm on a reverse course from acrylics now. I try to move away from enamels but I was growing more and more disappointed with acrylics and I keep now only the main coat in acrylics because they are easier to mix and tweak. Anything else (primer, undercoat, finishing coat are lacquers, enamels and / or polyurethanes). TCP seems to be some sort of intermediate solution: acrylic suspension and strong solvents. The practice must confirm if they inherit the best of both worlds or else
Gabriel
I don't see why not! I've never tried with TCP paint over acrylics but I constantly use solvent base polyurethane over acrylics, diluted with the same MLT. No issue whatsoever!
I'm on a reverse course from acrylics now. I try to move away from enamels but I was growing more and more disappointed with acrylics and I keep now only the main coat in acrylics because they are easier to mix and tweak. Anything else (primer, undercoat, finishing coat are lacquers, enamels and / or polyurethanes). TCP seems to be some sort of intermediate solution: acrylic suspension and strong solvents. The practice must confirm if they inherit the best of both worlds or else
Gabriel
sgtreef
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 - 01:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi, Jeff.
I don't see why not! I've never tried with TCP paint over acrylics but I constantly use solvent base polyurethane over acrylics, diluted with the same MLT. No issue whatsoever!
I'm on a reverse course from acrylics now. I try to move away from enamels but I was growing more and more disappointed with acrylics and I keep now only the main coat in acrylics because they are easier to mix and tweak. Anything else (primer, undercoat, finishing coat are lacquers, enamels and / or polyurethanes). TCP seems to be some sort of intermediate solution: acrylic suspension and strong solvents. The practice must confirm if they inherit the best of both worlds or else
Gabriel
Strange deal , was a big thing a few years back to get away from solvent based paint, now heading back to it.I do like Tamiya paint, have a ton of their colors in multiple jars.
And been adding some of Mig's, and of cause the most I have is Vallejo , and now AK interactive.
As long as covers well, and can stand oils washes, and not leave the tide marks all is well.
Szmann
Netherlands Antilles
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 - 02:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Strange deal , was a big thing a few years back to get away from solvent based paint, now heading back to it.I do like Tamiya paint, have a ton of their colors in multiple jars.
And been adding some of Mig's, and of cause the most I have is Vallejo , and now AK interactive.
As long as covers well, and can stand oils washes, and not leave the tide marks all is well.
I have Tamiya paints that remained undisturbed in their bottles for five years now. Either using IPA or X20A I couldn't get a proper uniform spray pattern from them (It could be my climate - I don't know). For brushing they don't work really well as they get sticky and drag, leaving marks. I've made friends with Tamiya acrylics only with the advent of MLT - and yes! - they do work like a charm. But please note is almost the same like TCP in this case. Basically they are acrylic lacquers (!).
Another brand I tried and used consistently is Vallejo. They spray a wonder when they are fresh but (my climate again?) they have a tendency to develop gummy strings and again and again I end up doing deep a/b cleaning in the least appropriate moments . They are brushing very well though, straight from the bottle and this is a very good point.
From a professional painter friend I went in contact with Liquitex acrylics (resin reinforced) and I never looked back. The only drawback is that they come in painter's shades, not in military standard so I have to mix them myself (which I like nonetheless). They can be thinned with anything from water to lacquer thinner but the best results I've obtained with X20A.
I have a large supply of craft acrylics (cheapies like Homefront, Apple Barrel and such). They have mostly a weak pigment but a tremendous shelf life for not being "enhanced". My oldest bottle is 7 ears old and still going strong!
On the other hand, I'm having a love affair with Rust-oleum and Krylon enamels that spray fantastic, especially when diluted with lacquer thinner or MLT. The only bad thing is the long curing time and the fact that they cannot take oil washes without an intermediate acrylic coat, and I am usually avoid them when I do the main coat to save time - I know, I'm a cheater!
Gabriel
Vicious
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I have Tamiya paints that remained undisturbed in their bottles for five years now. Either using IPA or X20A I couldn't get a proper uniform spray pattern from them (It could be my climate - I don't know). For brushing they don't work really well as they get sticky and drag, leaving marks. I've made friends with Tamiya acrylics only with the advent of MLT - and yes! - they do work like a charm. But please note is almost the same like TCP in this case. Basically they are acrylic lacquers (!).
Another brand I tried and used consistently is Vallejo. They spray a wonder when they are fresh but (my climate again?) they have a tendency to develop gummy strings and again and again I end up doing deep a/b cleaning in the least appropriate moments . They are brushing very well though, straight from the bottle and this is a very good point.
From a professional painter friend I went in contact with Liquitex acrylics (resin reinforced) and I never looked back. The only drawback is that they come in painter's shades, not in military standard so I have to mix them myself (which I like nonetheless). They can be thinned with anything from water to lacquer thinner but the best results I've obtained with X20A.
I have a large supply of craft acrylics (cheapies like Homefront, Apple Barrel and such). They have mostly a weak pigment but a tremendous shelf life for not being "enhanced". My oldest bottle is 7 ears old and still going strong!
On the other hand, I'm having a love affair with Rust-oleum and Krylon enamels that spray fantastic, especially when diluted with lacquer thinner or MLT. The only bad thing is the long curing time and the fact that they cannot take oil washes without an intermediate acrylic coat, and I am usually avoid them when I do the main coat to save time - I know, I'm a cheater!
Gabriel
Because I imagine your climate is very similar to mine, tropical and directly on the sea, I am very satisfied with the Acrylic Mission Models and with their Thinner + Poly system, they are the only water based Acrylics that do not give me problems, both in the dry season, here it does not rain seriously from....I do not even remember anymore, 4 months I think ... and they work the same way during the rainy season when the heat and humidity reach levels to make you grow mushrooms under your armpits...
sgtreef
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 - 11:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I have Tamiya paints that remained undisturbed in their bottles for five years now. Either using IPA or X20A I couldn't get a proper uniform spray pattern from them (It could be my climate - I don't know). For brushing they don't work really well as they get sticky and drag, leaving marks. I've made friends with Tamiya acrylics only with the advent of MLT - and yes! - they do work like a charm. But please note is almost the same like TCP in this case. Basically they are acrylic lacquers (!).
Another brand I tried and used consistently is Vallejo. They spray a wonder when they are fresh but (my climate again?) they have a tendency to develop gummy strings and again and again I end up doing deep a/b cleaning in the least appropriate moments . They are brushing very well though, straight from the bottle and this is a very good point.
From a professional painter friend I went in contact with Liquitex acrylics (resin reinforced) and I never looked back. The only drawback is that they come in painter's shades, not in military standard so I have to mix them myself (which I like nonetheless). They can be thinned with anything from water to lacquer thinner but the best results I've obtained with X20A.
I have a large supply of craft acrylics (cheapies like Homefront, Apple Barrel and such). They have mostly a weak pigment but a tremendous shelf life for not being "enhanced". My oldest bottle is 7 ears old and still going strong!
On the other hand, I'm having a love affair with Rust-oleum and Krylon enamels that spray fantastic, especially when diluted with lacquer thinner or MLT. The only bad thing is the long curing time and the fact that they cannot take oil washes without an intermediate acrylic coat, and I am usually avoid them when I do the main coat to save time - I know, I'm a cheater!
Gabriel
Because I imagine your climate is very similar to mine, tropical and directly on the sea, I am very satisfied with the Acrylic Mission Models and with their Thinner + Poly system, they are the only water based Acrylics that do not give me problems, both in the dry season, here it does not rain seriously from....I do not even remember anymore, 4 months I think ... and they work the same way during the rainy season when the heat and humidity reach levels to make you grow mushrooms under your armpits...
That last part is funny, so I guess summer down south in Australia?
Here in OK can be bad also in the summer.
Soon everybody will have paints out,anybody try AK true colors? Not bad.
wedgetail53
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Joined: October 02, 2008
KitMaker: 658 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 - 12:06 PM UTC
G'day all
No, not summer yet here in Oz, still spring for another month or so. However, temperature today is set to reach 35C (95F) - I'm not looking forward to summer.
As for AK Real Colours - I won a set of four shades of Dunkelgelb at our club meeting a few months ago and have been trying them out. I used isopropyl alcohol (buy it at Bunnings) to thin approximately 3:1 and it works very well. I clean the airbrush with Medea Airbrush Cleaner and have had no problems.
Regards
Rob
No, not summer yet here in Oz, still spring for another month or so. However, temperature today is set to reach 35C (95F) - I'm not looking forward to summer.
As for AK Real Colours - I won a set of four shades of Dunkelgelb at our club meeting a few months ago and have been trying them out. I used isopropyl alcohol (buy it at Bunnings) to thin approximately 3:1 and it works very well. I clean the airbrush with Medea Airbrush Cleaner and have had no problems.
Regards
Rob
sgtreef
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Joined: March 01, 2002
KitMaker: 6,043 posts
Armorama: 4,347 posts
Posted: Friday, October 26, 2018 - 12:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
G'day all
No, not summer yet here in Oz, still spring for another month or so. However, temperature today is set to reach 35C (95F) - I'm not looking forward to summer.
As for AK Real Colours - I won a set of four shades of Dunkelgelb at our club meeting a few months ago and have been trying them out. I used isopropyl alcohol (buy it at Bunnings) to thin approximately 3:1 and it works very well. I clean the airbrush with Medea Airbrush Cleaner and have had no problems.
Regards
Rob
Thanks Rob for correcting my getting that wrong on the colors, AK real colors it is.
And at 95 that is hot,about like OK summers 115 no problem.
As long as the A/C is working lock one self up in the house.
Not much of an outdoor person any more, like I was when younger, kind of a bummer, but hey heck with it.
I have found them just as good as Tamiya, not saying better yet, but do go on smoother then Tamiya, using alcohol.
Cheers
Szmann
Netherlands Antilles
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Joined: September 02, 2014
KitMaker: 1,977 posts
Armorama: 305 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 - 02:49 AM UTC
I finally managed to finish editing and publishing my in-depth review on TCP paint range. Perhaps it answers many questions raised here.
Cheers!
Gabriel
Cheers!
Gabriel