Hello experts,
Is it advisable to kit bash 1/35 one of Takom's M48H Brave Tiger kits' turret and Tamiya's old M48A3 hull to make an accurate M48A5? Or is it less work to improve on the crappy new Dragon's M48A5 (#6311)?
Regards,
James
Hosted by Darren Baker
Kit bashing to make M48A5?
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 02:03 AM UTC
BunkerBuster
Joined: March 29, 2017
KitMaker: 157 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 02:45 AM UTC
What specifically is wrong with the Dragon A5 release (other than the DS parts) that would justify using the Tamiya hull? The Dragon hull, while not perfect, is light years ahead of the Tamiya moldings.
As for the turret, I know that the DS mantlet sucks. I replaced it with the legend detail set on my A3 build and already have the DEF replacement barrel/mantlet for my future A5 build. I'm not an expert on the M48 series, so I would be curious to know what else needs to be corrected on the Dragon kit to make it into a correct A5 build.
As for the turret, I know that the DS mantlet sucks. I replaced it with the legend detail set on my A3 build and already have the DEF replacement barrel/mantlet for my future A5 build. I'm not an expert on the M48 series, so I would be curious to know what else needs to be corrected on the Dragon kit to make it into a correct A5 build.
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
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Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 06:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What specifically is wrong with the Dragon A5 release (other than the DS parts) that would justify using the Tamiya hull?
As for the turret, I know that the DS mantlet sucks. I replaced it with the legend detail set on my A3 build and already have the DEF replacement barrel/mantlet for my future A5 build. I'm not an expert on the M48 series, so I would be curious to know what else needs to be corrected on the Dragon kit to make it into a correct A5 build.
Dragon kit's issues are not related to the hull but a lot of other things: oversized mantlet, undersized barrel, over-sized M60 guns, wrong shaped cupola, undersized wheels (1.5mm smaller in diameter - obvious if you look at it side by side with AFV Club or Takom one), wheels lacking the M48 steel wheels' inner grooves, etc. Plus the added cost to makr it right. If you start adding AM stuff you mentioned and wheels, the $60 kit becomes $100+, which is much more than Takom + Tamiya kits.
GTDeath13
Joined: June 12, 2015
KitMaker: 921 posts
Armorama: 919 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 07:21 AM UTC
Unfortunately the Dragon hull is the best m48 hull available at the moment. So using a Dragon hull is the way to go. Perhaps a M48A3 mod b would be a good start with after market parts. Even crosskitting with the TAKOM Brave tiger is possible, if one finds tha TAKOM kit cheap enough.
barkingdigger
Associate Editor
#013
Joined: June 20, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, October 21, 2018 - 08:29 AM UTC
The Dragon M48 hull and turret are the best out there at the moment, but the other flaws (gun, mantlet, wheels) make this $60 kit a $30 kit at best. I've built a few of their M48 variants (and the shoddy M60 slick!) but only because I got them cheap on ebay or at shows - I wouldn't part with full RRP for them. If you can find it at around $30 it is worth throwing some AM on it!
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 04:06 AM UTC
Ha! I was hoping to see "go and kit bash Takom and Tamiya" but I guess getting the Dragon M48A5 is preferred...
Thank you all.
Thank you all.
tanknick22
Joined: February 19, 2009
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 1,100 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 05:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello experts,
Is it advisable to kit bash 1/35 one of Takom's M48H Brave Tiger kits' turret and Tamiya's old M48A3 hull to make an accurate M48A5? Or is it less work to improve on the crappy new Dragon's M48A5 (#6311)?
Regards,
James
Why kitbash when Academy makes a M48A5 and they give you options to do either a korean or American M48A5
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 06:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Why kitbash when Academy makes a M48A5 and they give you options to do either a korean or American M48A5
Becuase Academy's kit is not a good representation of a US M48A5. It is a poor copy of Tamiya's poor M48A3 with narrowed, incorrect (T97 as opposed to T142) track to fit inside the side skirts. Also, the fenders are modified to fit the side skirts, which are not present on US versions. Overall details are soft, motorization holes in the hull, etc., etc., etc...
Best bet is to get a new mantlet and barrel for the Dragon M48A5 and you will have a pretty good representation of a US M48A5.
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 07:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It is a poor copy of Tamiya's poor M48A3 with narrowed, incorrect (T97 as opposed to T142) track to fit inside the side skirts.
Best bet is to get a new mantlet and barrel for the Dragon M48A5 and you will have a pretty good representation of a US M48A5.
Gino, did any M48A5s use T97 tracks? I feel like I've seen some photos with those older tracks on M48A5s.
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 07:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gino, did any M48A5s use T97 tracks? I feel like I've seen some photos with those older tracks on M48A5s.
I'm sure some did at some point, I will not say never. T142 track was the most common type on US M48A5s though.
TankSGT
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 22, 2018 - 04:56 PM UTC
The majority of the tanks the 50th Armored had in Fort Drum had T97 tracks. Toward the end of the 80s a few sets of T142s starting showing up on what we were told were tanks selected for Sgt Yorks but were sent back as M48A5s when it was canceled. They had new paint, late model armored air cleaners and T142 track.
Tom NJARNG tanker 1983 to 2003.
Tom NJARNG tanker 1983 to 2003.
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 23, 2018 - 01:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The majority of the tanks the 50th Armored had in Fort Drum had T97 tracks. Toward the end of the 80s a few sets of T142s starting showing up on what we were told were tanks selected for Sgt Yorks but were sent back as M48A5s when it was canceled. They had new paint, late model armored air cleaners and T142 track.
Tom NJARNG tanker 1983 to 2003.
Good info, Tom!
Removed by original poster on 10/24/18 - 16:22:17 (GMT).
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 24, 2018 - 03:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIt is a poor copy of Tamiya's poor M48A3 with narrowed, incorrect (T97 as opposed to T142) track to fit inside the side skirts.
Best bet is to get a new mantlet and barrel for the Dragon M48A5 and you will have a pretty good representation of a US M48A5.
Gino, did any M48A5s use T97 tracks? I feel like I've seen some photos with those older tracks on M48A5s.
Tanks in my unit only had the older T97, I had never seen the newer style track until I got to Knox and saw them on M60A3TTS in 1987 at my unit in Germany. Someone was kind enough to send me a set of the old style DS tracks for my Dragon M48A5. This four photo montage was taken by me in 1984 and the upper right one in 1985 at Fort Drum (50th Armor Division). The bottom photo was taken twenty years later at Fort Knox and is of a former Vermont 50th Armor Division tank. All photographs were taken by me.
Petition2God
Joined: February 06, 2002
KitMaker: 1,526 posts
Armorama: 1,294 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 25, 2018 - 05:17 AM UTC
Thank you, Sabot for the photos... Looks like I'll need to order T97 tracks...
martinello
Joined: March 20, 2018
KitMaker: 24 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - 08:18 AM UTC
Hello
My model M48A5 builds as a connection of the Dragon M48A5 hull and Takom's CM-11 turret.
I have two questions:
1. Where I can find pictures M48A5 from the 50th Armoured Division - so I faithfully give away all the odds and ends
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
greetings
Marcin
My model M48A5 builds as a connection of the Dragon M48A5 hull and Takom's CM-11 turret.
I have two questions:
1. Where I can find pictures M48A5 from the 50th Armoured Division - so I faithfully give away all the odds and ends
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
greetings
Marcin
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - 10:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello experts,
Is it advisable to kit bash 1/35 one of Takom's M48H Brave Tiger kits' turret and Tamiya's old M48A3 hull to make an accurate M48A5? Or is it less work to improve on the crappy new Dragon's M48A5 (#6311)?
Regards,
James
DEF now offers an upgrade set for the Dragon M48A5. It's a new metal barrel with resin dust shroud. The accordion section is molded onto the barrel for convenience.
http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/modern/defmodeldm35082reviewbg_1.html
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - 11:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
Yes, the M240 was not adopted by the US military until the mid-late '90s.
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 03:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
Yes, the M240 was not adopted by the US military until the mid-late '90s.
Gino, your statement is correct for M240Bs that replaced the M60 MG in the Army & USMC. The M240 was adopted by the Army in the late 70's as a replacement for the M73/M219 coax MG on the M60A1s & M60A3s and was original equipment for the M1 family.
John
TankSGT
Joined: July 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,139 posts
Armorama: 946 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
Yes, the M240 was not adopted by the US military until the mid-late '90s.
You must be talking about the 11Bravos. I saw my first one in 1978 when we ditched the M551s for M60A1 RISE Passives in the 11th ACR.
Tom
Bravo1102
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello
My model M48A5 builds as a connection of the Dragon M48A5 hull and Takom's CM-11 turret.
I have two questions:
1. Where I can find pictures M48A5 from the 50th Armoured Division - so I faithfully give away all the odds and ends
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
greetings
Marcin
Tanksgt above was in the 50th and has pictures of the tanks he crewed. I was on them one year and documented a bunch of variations and color schemes during down time in the field but didn't own a camera at the time.
martinello
Joined: March 20, 2018
KitMaker: 24 posts
Armorama: 24 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 04:45 AM UTC
Hello
I want to make a model from Dragon's instructions at the bottom -> https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10488467/60/2
In the picture I am looking for I want to confirm the type of wheels, tracks, air filters and other equipment.
greetings
Marcin
I want to make a model from Dragon's instructions at the bottom -> https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10488467/60/2
In the picture I am looking for I want to confirm the type of wheels, tracks, air filters and other equipment.
greetings
Marcin
HeavyArty
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 04:46 AM UTC
Yes, I should have clarified that I meant when the M240B replaced the M60A as a vehicle and ground MG. The M240C was an original feature on the M1 and adopted by the M60s in the coax mode as well.
To the best of my knowledge, the M240 was not used on M48A5s.
To the best of my knowledge, the M240 was not used on M48A5s.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 05:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello
My model M48A5 builds as a connection of the Dragon M48A5 hull and Takom's CM-11 turret.
I have two questions:
1. Where I can find pictures M48A5 from the 50th Armoured Division - so I faithfully give away all the odds and ends
2. M48A5 always used M60 gun ? - dragon gave them nasty and I would like to change them on M240 from Takom's model
greetings
Marcin
The pictures I posted above were taken by me and are of 50th Armor Division tanks, to include the one taken at Fort Knox.
The M48A5 I was on, and the rest in the unit, were equipped with two M60D machine guns, no front grip and an anti-aircraft style sight and the M219 coaxial machine gun. The M60D had bipods, but would be tricky to use as a ground fired weapon without the front grip.
I've heard tales and seen photos of M48A5 tanks out west with the old M48A3 style cupola. Never run across one myself.
The M240 was in use long before the M219 was retired. My M60A3 had the 240 as a coax, and that was in the 1980s.
Garrand
Joined: October 27, 2009
KitMaker: 195 posts
Armorama: 194 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 05:41 AM UTC
Interesting conversation. I have the Dragon M48A3 Mod B & The Academy M48A5. I did the Academy kit a few years ago as an NJANG tank in Summer Verdant MERDC scheme, & I want to do a redo of the subject, this time a 2nd Inf Div 'A5 in Korea. I was intending to kitbash the two kits together (this was before Dragon did the -A5), & I think it would give me a pretty good result using the strengths of both kits. Once I get some other projects out of the way...
Damon.
Damon.
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