Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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News
Blitz Kit: Latil M721, 25mm Hotchkiss, and MorePosted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 05:44 PM UTC
Whilst available as individual kits, this month's release announcement from Blitz Kit enables one to build a scene depicting a French AA team in WWII.
Read the Full News Story
If you have comments or questions please post them here.
Thanks!
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 06:42 PM UTC
French officers did the pointing pose too.
I thought it was only the Germans who did the pointing
/ Robin
I thought it was only the Germans who did the pointing
/ Robin
TanksFormers
Poland
Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 33 posts
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Joined: March 05, 2014
KitMaker: 33 posts
Armorama: 33 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 07:45 PM UTC
Robin -
Vicious
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
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Joined: September 04, 2015
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Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 08:31 PM UTC
Quoted Text
French officers did the pointing pose too.
I thought it was only the Germans who did the pointing
/ Robin
It's because he's from Strasbourg, changed hand so many times between France and Germany that he's confused
Bravo1102
New Jersey, United States
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Joined: December 08, 2003
KitMaker: 2,864 posts
Armorama: 2,497 posts
Posted: Monday, October 29, 2018 - 09:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
French officers did the pointing pose too.
I thought it was only the Germans who did the pointing
/ Robin
He's pointing at the German who is pointing at him. "He started it!"
vettejack
Florida, United States
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Joined: November 23, 2012
KitMaker: 1,277 posts
Armorama: 1,254 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 12:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextFrench officers did the pointing pose too.
I thought it was only the Germans who did the pointing
/ Robin
He's pointing at the German who is pointing at him. "He started it!"
On the other hand, the finger pointing might be to indicate the route of retreat.
RECON22
Queensland, Australia
Joined: February 10, 2012
KitMaker: 665 posts
Armorama: 652 posts
Joined: February 10, 2012
KitMaker: 665 posts
Armorama: 652 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 01:39 AM UTC
Very nice set....
ziggyfoos
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 27, 2004
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Joined: June 27, 2004
KitMaker: 199 posts
Armorama: 133 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 10:48 PM UTC
Wish these types would come out in injected plastic.
Unrelated to modeling... was France during the 30s/40s both left and right hand drive? I see the Blitz trucks are right hand but others from the period like the Citroen and UE tractor are left hand.
Unrelated to modeling... was France during the 30s/40s both left and right hand drive? I see the Blitz trucks are right hand but others from the period like the Citroen and UE tractor are left hand.
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 30, 2018 - 11:09 PM UTC
France have been driving on the right side of the road since the French revolution. Not sure if the switch was made in 1789 but Napoleon definitely ordered it.
Standardisation of vehicles is another matter. Nowadays the hand brake lever is in the middle or as a foot pedal or in some cases just a button. Right handed people should have the lever fot the hand brake by their strongest hand (the right).
In the beginning the hand brake was placed outside of the frame rails (before someone invented a way to get it inside the frame ...how difficult can it be ...). If the driver sits on the right side of the vehicle the drivers right hand can reach the hand brake lever. To be able to steer the steering wheel should be where the driver sits.
With smallish open vehicles this was not an issue.
When the brake lever could be placed inside the frame rails it was easier to have the driver on the left side with the hand brake lever at the drivers right side. I learned to drive in a Volvo Amazon where the hand brake lever is at the drivers left side so my stepfather who did the teaching could not reach it in an emergency (he never needed to either). In my dads Mercedes 190D the hand brake was a handle to pull positioned to the left and slightly forward of the drivers left knee, try reaching that one in a hurry ....
If we go back a little further, to horse drawn wagons, there is another aspect to consider. The driver can be sitting on a bench at the front, whip in right hand. To avoid hitting the passengers with the whip it is better to sit on the right side (right hand drive). By driving on the left side the driver gets the best control when meeting another carriage. The conestoga wagons were controlled by riding on one of the mules in the last pair. To get the best control over the team it was best for a right whipping driver to ride on the left mule, the whip is in the center.
Driving on the right becomes natural since that makes it easier to meet other wagons, best view of the side nearest the meeting wagon.
Riders, those who carried a pointy weapon like a sabre at their left side (right handed people prefer to draw their sabre or sword from a sheath hanging on their left hip) preferred to ride on the left since that would place meeting riders to their right (the weapon hand) but more importantly it avoided the sheaths/weapons touching each other since that could be considered a provocation and lead to unnecessary bloodshed.
Anecdote: Napoleon ordered his artillery to drive on the right since that would make it slightly more difficult for any encountered enemy cavalry patrols to chop at the drivers. The riders would have their right hand on the wrong side and would either have to turn their horses around or fight across the horse which limits their reach. The drivers were also disadvantaged, unless you picked left handed drivers, but the effect of their disadvantage is less than the gains from having the cavalry disadvantaged.
Conclusion: In the early days of motorvehicles the position of the driver was a result of mechanical considerations and not dependent on the traffic rules. Nowadays vehicles are left or right hand drive depending on how the traffic in that specific market is organised.
/ Robin
Standardisation of vehicles is another matter. Nowadays the hand brake lever is in the middle or as a foot pedal or in some cases just a button. Right handed people should have the lever fot the hand brake by their strongest hand (the right).
In the beginning the hand brake was placed outside of the frame rails (before someone invented a way to get it inside the frame ...how difficult can it be ...). If the driver sits on the right side of the vehicle the drivers right hand can reach the hand brake lever. To be able to steer the steering wheel should be where the driver sits.
With smallish open vehicles this was not an issue.
When the brake lever could be placed inside the frame rails it was easier to have the driver on the left side with the hand brake lever at the drivers right side. I learned to drive in a Volvo Amazon where the hand brake lever is at the drivers left side so my stepfather who did the teaching could not reach it in an emergency (he never needed to either). In my dads Mercedes 190D the hand brake was a handle to pull positioned to the left and slightly forward of the drivers left knee, try reaching that one in a hurry ....
If we go back a little further, to horse drawn wagons, there is another aspect to consider. The driver can be sitting on a bench at the front, whip in right hand. To avoid hitting the passengers with the whip it is better to sit on the right side (right hand drive). By driving on the left side the driver gets the best control when meeting another carriage. The conestoga wagons were controlled by riding on one of the mules in the last pair. To get the best control over the team it was best for a right whipping driver to ride on the left mule, the whip is in the center.
Driving on the right becomes natural since that makes it easier to meet other wagons, best view of the side nearest the meeting wagon.
Riders, those who carried a pointy weapon like a sabre at their left side (right handed people prefer to draw their sabre or sword from a sheath hanging on their left hip) preferred to ride on the left since that would place meeting riders to their right (the weapon hand) but more importantly it avoided the sheaths/weapons touching each other since that could be considered a provocation and lead to unnecessary bloodshed.
Anecdote: Napoleon ordered his artillery to drive on the right since that would make it slightly more difficult for any encountered enemy cavalry patrols to chop at the drivers. The riders would have their right hand on the wrong side and would either have to turn their horses around or fight across the horse which limits their reach. The drivers were also disadvantaged, unless you picked left handed drivers, but the effect of their disadvantage is less than the gains from having the cavalry disadvantaged.
Conclusion: In the early days of motorvehicles the position of the driver was a result of mechanical considerations and not dependent on the traffic rules. Nowadays vehicles are left or right hand drive depending on how the traffic in that specific market is organised.
/ Robin
Taeuss
Manitoba, Canada
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Joined: January 03, 2016
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
Armorama: 3,778 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 31, 2018 - 12:54 PM UTC
Wow what an in depth history lesson on right hand drive. Loved it. The kit itself seems nice and while I don't know about the alleged left hand drive Citroen I find it weird as only the British and Swiss models were so equipped. A re-imported French vehicle in British service? Weird thought that...
RobinNilsson
TOS Moderator
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Joined: November 29, 2006
KitMaker: 6,693 posts
Armorama: 5,562 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 12:49 AM UTC
Blitz kits:
Autocanon De Dion Bouton: RHD
Tracteur Knox: LHD
Renault EG: RHD
Citroën Kégresse P14: LHD (fifth wheel tractor, AA-carrier
Citroën Kégresse P17: LHD
Citroën Kégresse P19 Porte Canon: LHD
Laffly S15R: RHD
Laffly S45, V 10 M, V 10 Chemin de Montagne, V 15 R Blindé, V 15 T, W15 TCC, W 15 T 47AC : RHD
Laffly V 10 M: RHD
Latil KTL4: RHD
Latil M7Z1: RHD
Caterpillar Schneider CD: RHD
Chatillon Panhard RHD
Citroën W15T 25CA: RHD The odd one among the Citroëns.
All of these are military in some way so maybe it was some military requirement. Front left seat reserved for the vehicle commander so the driver gets pushed to the right?
Drive on the right side, commander on the left (toward the centre of the road), despatch rider on motorcycle passes the convoy and interacts with the vehicle commander. With LHD the despatch rider and vehicle commander would be separated by the driver. Vehicle commander is able to observe signals passed down the left side of the vehicle, i.e. center of the road?
Just guessing at possible operational scenarios causing such a requirement. That makes the Kegrésse halftracks look mysterious since they are LHD. Some technical limitation?
/ Robin
Autocanon De Dion Bouton: RHD
Tracteur Knox: LHD
Renault EG: RHD
Citroën Kégresse P14: LHD (fifth wheel tractor, AA-carrier
Citroën Kégresse P17: LHD
Citroën Kégresse P19 Porte Canon: LHD
Laffly S15R: RHD
Laffly S45, V 10 M, V 10 Chemin de Montagne, V 15 R Blindé, V 15 T, W15 TCC, W 15 T 47AC : RHD
Laffly V 10 M: RHD
Latil KTL4: RHD
Latil M7Z1: RHD
Caterpillar Schneider CD: RHD
Chatillon Panhard RHD
Citroën W15T 25CA: RHD The odd one among the Citroëns.
All of these are military in some way so maybe it was some military requirement. Front left seat reserved for the vehicle commander so the driver gets pushed to the right?
Drive on the right side, commander on the left (toward the centre of the road), despatch rider on motorcycle passes the convoy and interacts with the vehicle commander. With LHD the despatch rider and vehicle commander would be separated by the driver. Vehicle commander is able to observe signals passed down the left side of the vehicle, i.e. center of the road?
Just guessing at possible operational scenarios causing such a requirement. That makes the Kegrésse halftracks look mysterious since they are LHD. Some technical limitation?
/ Robin
Vicious
Queensland, Australia
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 01, 2018 - 10:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wow what an in depth history lesson on right hand drive. Loved it. The kit itself seems nice and while I don't know about the alleged left hand drive Citroen I find it weird as only the British and Swiss models were so equipped. A re-imported French vehicle in British service? Weird thought that...
The Swiss use truck with the left hand drive at least until the late 90's,the last was the Saurer Berna 2DM,i done few Km on the back of the good old 2DM when i was in the army,my brother was a truck driver in the Swiss army and in part learn to drive on a 2DM
in Switzerland the postmen's cars still have left-hand drive to be on the side of the mailbox to deliver mail