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How Are Different Sized Trucks Used?
long_tom
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 05:13 PM UTC
The question is inspired by seeing an old Beetle Bailey comic about how a bunch of men are squished into a single truck, but I wondered what the different sizes of cargo trucks were used to transport typically, such as 2.5 or 5 ton trucks.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Thursday, December 20, 2018 - 11:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I wondered what the different sizes of cargo trucks were used to transport typically, such as 2.5 or 5 ton trucks.
It depends on when (1944? 1958? 2007?) and by whom (Infantry battalion? Graves Registration company? Field Artillery Ballistic Missile Battery?).
KL
long_tom
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 12:18 AM UTC
And I assumed that different militaries would have used similar vehicles for similar functions. I mean 1960's BTW.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 12:38 AM UTC
It is usually based on what they are pulling or carrying. For example, an M198 155mm howitzer has to be pulled by a 5 ton or larger vehicle due to its weight. Likewise, to hual ammo for an MLRS Bn, a 10 ton HEMTT is used, again due to weight of the ammo.
For general transportation units that haul a$$ and trash, a 2 1/2 ton is usually sufficient.
For general transportation units that haul a$$ and trash, a 2 1/2 ton is usually sufficient.
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 12:56 AM UTC
Some of the ECM systems we used in our battalion were mounted on deuces in shelters and they had to tow their generators with them. Our battalion HQ and TOC were in larger shelters mounted on 5 tons and they had to tow their bigger generators. At the line unit level our supply element and motorpool element had a number of deuces and 5 ton trucks and of course a wrecker if we could pry it out of battalion HQ's hands. These were in the H.Q. platoon while the ECM platoon and surveillance platoon ran Humvees.
thathaway3
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 04:34 AM UTC
As everyone has said, it depends on the type of unit and the time period. I was in a Self Propelled (M109A1) Field Artillery Battalion in the early 1970s. At the Firing Battery level we had two 3/4 ton vehicles (one each for the Battery Admin/HQ and for the Battery XO) and two more for the two Commo/Wire sections. There were four 2 1/2 ton trucks, one each for Mess, Maint, and Supply, and one more dedicated for "Special Weapons". And then there were three 5 Ton Trucks for Battery Ammo re-supply. Each Howitzer section also had it's own tracked 6 ton M548 to carry ammo (in addition to the howitzer itself. There was an M577 for the FDC and the Battery Commander and the three Forward Observer teams each had a 1/4 ton M151.
The number of vehicles required by a Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) is determined by what percentage of the unit and it's equipment can be transported without additional assets. In our case everybody in the battery had a "ride" and all of the equipment we needed to have and move around in the field also had a spot on the load plans assigning it to a specific vehicle. Which of course we "ALWAYS" strictly observed.
Compare that with what the TOE for a regular "leg" infantry Rifle Company from the 2010 time period has: One M1165 and one M1083.
The number of vehicles required by a Table of Organization and Equipment (TO&E) is determined by what percentage of the unit and it's equipment can be transported without additional assets. In our case everybody in the battery had a "ride" and all of the equipment we needed to have and move around in the field also had a spot on the load plans assigning it to a specific vehicle. Which of course we "ALWAYS" strictly observed.
Compare that with what the TOE for a regular "leg" infantry Rifle Company from the 2010 time period has: One M1165 and one M1083.
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 05:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The question is inspired by seeing an old Beetle Bailey comic about how a bunch of men are squished into a single truck, but I wondered what the different sizes of cargo trucks were used to transport typically, such as 2.5 or 5 ton trucks.
I'm sure many of us on the forum remember similar experiences, crammed into all sorts of vehicles. Interestingly though, one of the things that gave away Otto Skorzeny's Panzerbrigade 150 was the fact that they crammed several troops into their 1/4 ton trucks, which by that time was atypical - the US had so many Jeeps by then that it was not necessary to overload them.
In more recent times (Wow, 1982 isn't really that recent any any more) I remember standing room only in the cattle trucks at the Harmony Church School for Wayward Boys, or being the lone passenger in a C-17.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 06:06 AM UTC
In the 11th CAV in the late 70s, each Troop had up to five 2 1/2 ton M35s, but the HHT Support Platoon had 34 M54 series 5 tons. The M35 was used for general cargo and troop transport. While the Support Platoon 5 tons were used for general cargo and ammo resupply. I don't know if "Beetle Bailey" was a reliable source of information, but I can say that not all those trucks would necessarily be operational all the time, so it's possible loads might be "larger" if one or two trucks weren't available for whatever reason.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 07:20 AM UTC
An armor company had four 2 1/2 ton trucks. Supply with cargo trailer, mess with water trailer and two for maintenance each with a cargo trailer.
All other trucks were from battalion motor pool dispatched as needed. At one point even the maintenance trucks were listed as a detachment to each company from battalion. I have seen all kinds of tables of organization and equipment from World War II to the 2000s and its generally the same.
Sometimes the maintenance got an additional 3/4 ton truck. Sometimes there was a fifth deuce and a half. Jeeps were usually three. Commander, XO and first sergeant. Sometimes the first sergeant had that fifth truck.
Ammo resupply came from battalion in 5 ton trucks or tractor trailers and later Hmmts.
I used to do commission building for gamers who wanted every truck.
All other trucks were from battalion motor pool dispatched as needed. At one point even the maintenance trucks were listed as a detachment to each company from battalion. I have seen all kinds of tables of organization and equipment from World War II to the 2000s and its generally the same.
Sometimes the maintenance got an additional 3/4 ton truck. Sometimes there was a fifth deuce and a half. Jeeps were usually three. Commander, XO and first sergeant. Sometimes the first sergeant had that fifth truck.
Ammo resupply came from battalion in 5 ton trucks or tractor trailers and later Hmmts.
I used to do commission building for gamers who wanted every truck.
Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 07:41 AM UTC
LOL , Robert I too remember being packed like sardines into those cattle trucks at Harmony church....July '85. It was especially nice on those boiling hot days LOL !
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 10:51 AM UTC
After basic training I never had to ride in a cattle car again, but I did get to drive them. When I'd pull up in one you could hear the rest of the unit start praying and I'd start grinning like a demented mad man.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 11:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
After basic training I never had to ride in a cattle car again, but I did get to drive them. When I'd pull up in one you could hear the rest of the unit start praying and I'd start grinning like a demented mad man.
....."Praying"? Really? More like cursing where I was! I used to pass them on the road here at Fort Lewis, or at Fort Knox or Benning, Leonard Wood or McClellan (the only other Stateside installations I've been assigned to), and think about those poor souls riding in the back and saying to myself "I'm glad to be beyond those days"! I don't recall seeing any overseas where I spent half my career, but I suppose they were there too.
VR, Russ
18Bravo
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 12:38 PM UTC
My last memory of a cattle truck was pushing troops at Ft. Sill in 2001.Recruits would sometimes go through a zero week, or even two, waiting for enough to form a new BCT class. Drill Sergeants were very friendly toward them, and acted pretty much like baby sitters while the recruits shot pool and played video games. I think it added to the shock value on the fateful day they were loaded on to the cattle trucks and driven "across the tracks" to the starship area where they were greeted by far less humorous Drill Sergeant such as myself.
As bad as they thought it was they were lucky not to have been at Harmony Church.
As bad as they thought it was they were lucky not to have been at Harmony Church.
Scarred
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 02:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAfter basic training I never had to ride in a cattle car again, but I did get to drive them. When I'd pull up in one you could hear the rest of the unit start praying and I'd start grinning like a demented mad man.
....."Praying"? Really? More like cursing where I was! I used to pass them on the road here at Fort Lewis, or at Fort Knox or Benning, Leonard Wood or McClellan (the only other Stateside installations I've been assigned to), and think about those poor souls riding in the back and saying to myself "I'm glad to be beyond those days"! I don't recall seeing any overseas where I spent half my career, but I suppose they were there too.
VR, Russ
The praying started when I pulled up. They started cursing when I rolled out. Since many of them had ridden with me in my POV they know my patron saint is Max Rockatansky. Every platoon leader made me their driver when the platoon was consolidated and I always asked why because it was more work and they all said the same thing "I know we'll get out of trouble faster than we got into it".
2CAVTrooper
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 03:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
My last memory of a cattle truck was pushing troops at Ft. Sill in 2001.Recruits would sometimes go through a zero week, or even two, waiting for enough to form a new BCT class. Drill Sergeants were very friendly toward them, and acted pretty much like baby sitters while the recruits shot pool and played video games. I think it added to the shock value on the fateful day they were loaded on to the cattle trucks and driven "across the tracks" to the starship area where they were greeted by far less humorous Drill Sergeant such as myself.
As bad as they thought it was they were lucky not to have been at Harmony Church.
FT. Sill was fun. Went through there in early thru mid '92 (Basic and AIT). Was assigned there til '94 then I went to Germany.
As far as the cattle cars, in basic we were in them up until the day we went for our final M-16 qualification. That day onwards we were in the busses. In AIT, we were in busses for all but two days.
We also used the 15pax vans or the 3/4 ton stakebeds depending on what detail we were on.
2CAVTrooper
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 03:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAfter basic training I never had to ride in a cattle car again, but I did get to drive them. When I'd pull up in one you could hear the rest of the unit start praying and I'd start grinning like a demented mad man.
....."Praying"? Really? More like cursing where I was! I used to pass them on the road here at Fort Lewis, or at Fort Knox or Benning, Leonard Wood or McClellan (the only other Stateside installations I've been assigned to), and think about those poor souls riding in the back and saying to myself "I'm glad to be beyond those days"! I don't recall seeing any overseas where I spent half my career, but I suppose they were there too.
VR, Russ
The cattle cars were never used overseas. In Germany we used OD green painted USAEUR registered Mercedes Benz 22 or 44 pax busses, or contract charter busses.
Bravo1102
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Posted: Friday, December 21, 2018 - 11:27 PM UTC
I went to college at Rutgers serviced by the campus bus system. Cattle trucks in Ft. Knox had nothing on students and backpacks all crammed in for ride up and down College Avenue. It's not the ride that gets you but the starts and stops.
Then there was PLDC a few years later where the platoon portrait was the gang of us in a Deuce and a half stuck in the mud with one guy yelling "PUT IT IN LOW RANGE!"
Then there was PLDC a few years later where the platoon portrait was the gang of us in a Deuce and a half stuck in the mud with one guy yelling "PUT IT IN LOW RANGE!"
thathaway3
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 05:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
An armor company had four 2 1/2 ton trucks. Supply with cargo trailer, mess with water trailer and two for maintenance each with a cargo trailer.
It's interesting how different units will use the same equipment in a different way. In our Field Artillery battery (which is a company sized unit for those not familiar with the designation) we had the same configuration of a 2 1/2 ton truck for both the supply section as well as the mess section, and we had the cargo trailer (1 1/2 ton I think) as well as the water trailer. But in our units, the mess truck hauled the cargo trailer which had additional food service equipment in it, like immersion heaters and whatever fresh or packaged rations we were carrying. The truck had a plywood kitchen built into the back of it and both cooked and served meals (think of a "roach coach") and thus was pretty much static in the battery position and only moved when the unit did. The supply truck, which carried the rest of the supply gear and whatever tents we'd use, hauled the water buffalo. That meant that the supply truck was used (after we were set up) to shuttle back and forth to pick up new rations and other supplies as they were required, as well as haul the water buffalo back to the water point and re-fill it when required. Same gear, different approach. I think a big part of the difference might be that in the case of most armor/mech infantry units, the bulk of the troops were highly dispersed from the company "CP" location and often meals (other than "C rations) were delivered out the the various platoon locations. With FA units, we fed right from the mess truck, because almost all battery personnel were located within walking distance.
Kevlar06
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 06:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextAfter basic training I never had to ride in a cattle car again, but I did get to drive them. When I'd pull up in one you could hear the rest of the unit start praying and I'd start grinning like a demented mad man.
....."Praying"? Really? More like cursing where I was! I used to pass them on the road here at Fort Lewis, or at Fort Knox or Benning, Leonard Wood or McClellan (the only other Stateside installations I've been assigned to), and think about those poor souls riding in the back and saying to myself "I'm glad to be beyond those days"! I don't recall seeing any overseas where I spent half my career, but I suppose they were there too.
VR, Russ
The cattle cars were never used overseas. In Germany we used OD green painted USAEUR registered Mercedes Benz 22 or 44 pax busses, or contract charter busses.
That must have been after my time there, as I don’t remember the luxury of any Mercedes Benz busses, but “Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz” was a popular song back then— and we wish we’d had them.
VR, Russ
Scarred
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Posted: Saturday, December 22, 2018 - 12:42 PM UTC
In Berlin I was licensed to drive everything up then big 50+ buses used to get the shifts from the flats to T-berg but I didn't let many people know. I was in a critically short stressful MOS and any time off was needed for training, duty like CQ, and any relaxing we could get. if they knew I could drive the bus I'd be stuck doing duty driver for the whole battalion on any days off I could get. Besides our buses were usually driven by a German contract company and those guys were madmen.