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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Looking for info on Patriot Missile
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 05:00 AM UTC
Hi – I’m researching Patriot PAC-3 and looking for some info.

There look to be two patterns of the large box on the raised platform at the front of the M901 launcher. I believe this is the generator.

The first pattern has various recesses and grills and looks to be common on most US Patriots. The later pattern is simpler with two large doors per side.

Trumpeter’s PAC-3 when purchased singly seems to have the first pattern.



...but their M901/M983 PAC-3 combo seems to have the second pattern.



So far, I’ve only seen photos of the second pattern on Japanese Patriots. Does anybody have photos of the later pattern on US-operated Patriots? So far no joy from Google, so any help is much appreciated.
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 07:01 AM UTC
Maybe the second type is used on export version(s)... ?

H.P.
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 09:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Maybe the second type is used on export version(s)... ?

H.P.


Yes, I'm beginning to think it's a Japanese modification.

I just found this link to a limited-edition Dragon Black Label JASDF Patriot Launcher where they give plans for the Japanese-specific mods in the instructions.

https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10484982/50/2

I can't read Japanese, but it looks suspiciously like it's saying "we can't be bothered to include all the correct parts for this version, but if it really worries you here are some plans for scratchbuilding. Knock yourselves out." Or am I missing something?
Frenchy
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Rhone, France
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 10:10 AM UTC
So this would mean that :

1) Dragon guys are lazy (even though JASDF markings are included)
2) Trumpeter kit #01037 is not accurate for a US Army Patriot launcher OOB...

;)

H.P.
RobinNilsson
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Stockholm, Sweden
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 10:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So this would mean that :

1) Dragon guys are lazy (even though JASDF markings are included)
2) Trumpeter kit #01037 is not accurate for a US Army Patriot launcher OOB...

;)

H.P.


which would solve the question in my other post rather neatly
Now I just need to get hold of Japanese markings

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/platz-sp-107-jasdf-patriot-pac-3-launcher--1146919
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 364 posts
Armorama: 363 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 07:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

So this would mean that :

1) Dragon guys are lazy (even though JASDF markings are included)
2) Trumpeter kit #01037 is not accurate for a US Army Patriot launcher OOB...

;)

H.P.


It does look like it, unless somebody can produce evidence showing otherwise.
165thspc
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Kentucky, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 07:31 PM UTC
A self contained package generator is more or less a bit of a commodity item, made by many manufactures the world over.

I can easily see the Japanese insisting their Patriots be spec'ed with an "in country" available generator for easier availability of parts and local servicing.
Frenchy
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Posted: Thursday, January 24, 2019 - 08:23 PM UTC
Agree. Looks like the Taiwanese have fitted their own generator as well :


H.P.
matt
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 01:23 AM UTC
I can say this. US Military generators have a strict export control on them. I bought one surplus from the gov't, and had to fill out paperwork stating I wouldn't sell it to a non American citizen, or attempt to export it.

So it's logical that any country would fit their own gen-set in place on the system.
KurtLaughlin
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 01:57 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I can say this. US Military generators have a strict export control on them. I bought one surplus from the gov't, and had to fill out paperwork stating I wouldn't sell it to a non American citizen, or attempt to export it.

So it's logical that any country would fit their own gen-set in place on the system.


I would hazard a guess that any country approved to receive a complete surface to air missile system would also be able to receive a generator set.

It is likely an issue of minimizing the amount of money paid to the US (rather than domestic industries) or keeping commonality with existing systems and logistics.

KL
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 01:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I can say this. US Military generators have a strict export control on them. I bought one surplus from the gov't, and had to fill out paperwork stating I wouldn't sell it to a non American citizen, or attempt to export it.

So it's logical that any country would fit their own gen-set in place on the system.


Amazing!
They can sell an advanced air-defence system but the customer needs to supply their own generator to avoid export control hassle?
Ahh, the miraculous workings of bureaucracy

Could it be that it was possible to let domestic industry get a small share of the whole deal by getting the generators locally instead of one 'Made in the US'?
The Japanese launchers are towed by Japanese trucks so that was one part which went to local industry
/ Robin
matt
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 02:11 AM UTC
I'm sure it's a local content thing too.... when you think about the entire system, the genset will be one of the most maintained components of the whole thing. It'd make perfect sense to keep the "more likely to need replaced" parts made locally...
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: November 24, 2008
KitMaker: 364 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Agree. Looks like the Taiwanese have fitted their own generator as well :


H.P.


I wonder what that means for this release then:

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/afv-club-af35s87-hemtt-m983-tractor-and-m901-launcher-station-pac-2--989246

Feels like I've opened a whole can of worms here.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, January 25, 2019 - 06:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Feels like I've opened a whole can of worms here.


It's the Taiwanese version, but the included generator is still the US one...

https://www.super-hobby.co.uk/products/HEMTT-M983-Tractor-M901-Launcher-Station-PAC-2.html

H.P.
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