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Panther air compressor
b2nhvi
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2019 - 10:43 PM UTC
I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Panthers (other tanks) were equipped with an air compressor that ran off the engine. Power for air tools and spray gun for applying camo. Ye? No? Maybe?
Kaktusas
Joined: April 12, 2017
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Posted: Sunday, January 27, 2019 - 11:00 PM UTC
Air compressor and pressure tank were used to blow fumes from the barrel, right after shell ejection. I doubt it was any useful for the power tools or spray gun.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 04:37 AM UTC
All Pz. III, IV, Panthers, and Tigers I and II were equipped with air-compressors... as were many Pz. II. And, when ALL of the vehicle's kit was provided, the crew got a hose and spray-gun to go with.
Starting early on with the issuing of the first Pz. 1a to panzer units in the last year of the Reichswehr and the founding of the Wehrmacht, tanks (and armored-cars, half-tracks, trucks, towed guns, etc., too) were delivered to units wearing only the regulation base-coat applied at the factory. Units were responsible at the company level for procuring - on the open market! - and applying the authorized camo colors of the 4-color "Feuer-sicherlicht Buntfarben - Anstricht paint scheme up to 1938, and of the 1938-'40 bicolor brown-over-grey scheme. A unit fund was provided to each company to support this activity, and crew were provided the spray-guns for the application. (PS: The bicolor scheme ended in June, 1940 with the Blitz in France - primarily as a COST-SAVING and time-saving measure! The company paint funds were cancelled starting in Mar 1940! Resulting in the reg-change to the 1940 - 1943 solid dunkelgrau 1-color scheme...). The desirability of camo was recognized after 1940, but left entirely to units - which were allowed to use captured paints opportunistically. Regulations continually changed and revised through 1941 to Mar 1943, when dunkelgelb became the new reg base color, and the brown and green camo colors approved as the "reg" tricolor scheme we German modelers all know and love.
Throughout the war, camo was done primarily by crew, and less commonly, at unit shops. The compressors and spray guns remained standard issue. Some factory camo schemes were applied to some types in 1944 and later, but crew camo application continued to the end in 1945.
The on-board compressors were also used for blowing dirt out of parts during road-side maintenance - something primarily done by crew.
German tanks, starting with Pz. III and derivative StuG III, had roof-mounted extractor fans to suck out fumes. FAIK, There was no provision for blowing out the barrel - no barrel extractors or such. No small compressor would provide sufficient air-flow to effectively blow out any long-barreled gun, and certainly not in any reasonable time. Which of course would have dire consequences during combat...
Cheers! Bob
Starting early on with the issuing of the first Pz. 1a to panzer units in the last year of the Reichswehr and the founding of the Wehrmacht, tanks (and armored-cars, half-tracks, trucks, towed guns, etc., too) were delivered to units wearing only the regulation base-coat applied at the factory. Units were responsible at the company level for procuring - on the open market! - and applying the authorized camo colors of the 4-color "Feuer-sicherlicht Buntfarben - Anstricht paint scheme up to 1938, and of the 1938-'40 bicolor brown-over-grey scheme. A unit fund was provided to each company to support this activity, and crew were provided the spray-guns for the application. (PS: The bicolor scheme ended in June, 1940 with the Blitz in France - primarily as a COST-SAVING and time-saving measure! The company paint funds were cancelled starting in Mar 1940! Resulting in the reg-change to the 1940 - 1943 solid dunkelgrau 1-color scheme...). The desirability of camo was recognized after 1940, but left entirely to units - which were allowed to use captured paints opportunistically. Regulations continually changed and revised through 1941 to Mar 1943, when dunkelgelb became the new reg base color, and the brown and green camo colors approved as the "reg" tricolor scheme we German modelers all know and love.
Throughout the war, camo was done primarily by crew, and less commonly, at unit shops. The compressors and spray guns remained standard issue. Some factory camo schemes were applied to some types in 1944 and later, but crew camo application continued to the end in 1945.
The on-board compressors were also used for blowing dirt out of parts during road-side maintenance - something primarily done by crew.
German tanks, starting with Pz. III and derivative StuG III, had roof-mounted extractor fans to suck out fumes. FAIK, There was no provision for blowing out the barrel - no barrel extractors or such. No small compressor would provide sufficient air-flow to effectively blow out any long-barreled gun, and certainly not in any reasonable time. Which of course would have dire consequences during combat...
Cheers! Bob
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 06:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
All Pz. III, IV, Panthers, and Tigers I and II were equipped with air-compressors... as were many Pz. II. And, when ALL of the vehicle's kit was provided, the crew got a hose and spray-gun to go with.
Starting early on with the issuing of the first Pz. 1a to panzer units in the last year of the Reichswehr and the founding of the Wehrmacht, tanks (and armored-cars, half-tracks, trucks, towed guns, etc., too) were delivered to units wearing only the regulation base-coat applied at the factory. Units were responsible at the company level for procuring - on the open market! - and applying the authorized camo colors of the 4-color "Feuer-sicherlicht Buntfarben - Anstricht paint scheme up to 1938, and of the 1938-'40 bicolor brown-over-grey scheme. A unit fund was provided to each company to support this activity, and crew were provided the spray-guns for the application. (PS: The bicolor scheme ended in June, 1940 with the Blitz in France - primarily as a COST-SAVING and time-saving measure! The company paint funds were cancelled starting in Mar 1940! Resulting in the reg-change to the 1940 - 1943 solid dunkelgrau 1-color scheme...). The desirability of camo was recognized after 1940, but left entirely to units - which were allowed to use captured paints opportunistically. Regulations continually changed and revised through 1941 to Mar 1943, when dunkelgelb became the new reg base color, and the brown and green camo colors approved as the "reg" tricolor scheme we German modelers all know and love.
Throughout the war, camo was done primarily by crew, and less commonly, at unit shops. The compressors and spray guns remained standard issue. Some factory camo schemes were applied to some types in 1944 and later, but crew camo application continued to the end in 1945.
The on-board compressors were also used for blowing dirt out of parts during road-side maintenance - something primarily done by crew.
German tanks, starting with Pz. III and derivative StuG III, had roof-mounted extractor fans to suck out fumes. FAIK, There was no provision for blowing out the barrel - no barrel extractors or such. No small compressor would provide sufficient air-flow to effectively blow out any long-barreled gun, and certainly not in any reasonable time. Which of course would have dire consequences during combat...
Cheers! Bob
"Armament
The core and heart of the Tiger II was it L71 KwK 43 8.8 cm (3.46 in) main gun, already used by the lightly armored and open-topped Hornisse and the more formidable Ferdinand/Elefant, both tank hunters, which proved how lethal the gun could be in ideal conditions. For the first time, a tank was tailored to use this gun, and the 360° traverse allowed for a better use of its capabilities. This was Krupp’s replica of the Rheinmetall KwK 43 L/74, already in service as an antitank gun since mid-1943. The difference was not only that it was shorter, but had different rifling and a new, more efficient muzzle brake. Its recoil cylinders were shorter, fatter, in order to fit inside a turret.
In addition, an air blast system was fitted to evacuate fumes from the gun directly after firing.
The ammunition was tailored for its, with a shorter and thicker cartridge case for easier loading."
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer-VI_Konigstiger.php
KBalczo
Joined: November 16, 2018
KitMaker: 27 posts
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 06:57 AM UTC
Cancelling the paint fund in March 1940, could certainly be one reason why two-color panzers are not so prevalent in photographs.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 08:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
The on-board compressors were also used for blowing dirt out of parts during road-side maintenance - something primarily done by crew.
German tanks, starting with Pz. III and derivative StuG III, had roof-mounted extractor fans to suck out fumes. FAIK, There was no provision for blowing out the barrel - no barrel extractors or such. No small compressor would provide sufficient air-flow to effectively blow out any long-barreled gun, and certainly not in any reasonable time. Which of course would have dire consequences during combat...
Cheers! Bob
"Armament
The core and heart of the Tiger II was it L71 KwK 43 8.8 cm (3.46 in) main gun, already used by the lightly armored and open-topped Hornisse and the more formidable Ferdinand/Elefant, both tank hunters, which proved how lethal the gun could be in ideal conditions. For the first time, a tank was tailored to use this gun, and the 360° traverse allowed for a better use of its capabilities. This was Krupp’s replica of the Rheinmetall KwK 43 L/74, already in service as an antitank gun since mid-1943. The difference was not only that it was shorter, but had different rifling and a new, more efficient muzzle brake. Its recoil cylinders were shorter, fatter, in order to fit inside a turret.
In addition, an air blast system was fitted to evacuate fumes from the gun directly after firing.
The ammunition was tailored for its, with a shorter and thicker cartridge case for easier loading."
http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer-VI_Konigstiger.php
Patrick: THANKS for filling in that bit concerning Tiger II having an air-blast system for clearing fumes from the gun! Up to this point, I'd only seen one mention that the Tiger II did introduce that system. The Germans introduced the world to many features seen only in more-recent tanks - this was certainly one of those features! Up to that point, bore-evacuators and such were not a feature of tanks (not that tankers didn't need to have such things...). I always love learning new bits, so THANK YOU! for the update!
In any case, that was likely a "first" for such equipment - and certainly called for having a compressor - a larger one - in Tiger II. Prior German tanks back to the lowly Pz. II and III pretty much all came with the mentioned compressor - but not for blowing smoke from the gun! It's interesting to note that the Tiger II gun was redesigned and rechambered for a different cartridge casing... Cannot have helped the ammo supply woes already facing the Germans by later 1944! Cheers! Bob
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 08:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Cancelling the paint fund in March 1940, could certainly be one reason why two-color panzers are not so prevalent in photographs.
Ken: It's an interesting (to me, at least
) factoid in the history of the 1940 Blitz - The brown-over-grey scheme of 1938 remained in regulation until July 01, 1940, or there-abouts. But the Polish affair was much costlier, in Marks as well as in men and equipment, then was anticipated by the Germans. As funding got tighter (I guess Hitler didn't have access to the sort of international credit which fuels our ginormous deficit! ), savings were sought everywhere... So units lost their paint funds early in 1940. The result was that most newer equipment (and stuff which had been sent home for rebuilding and refurb) which had not been painted to regs by Feb-Mar 1940 simply remained grey. Thus many vehicles seen in the 1940 Blitz were grey-only. Hence many pics of that time show all-grey vehicles. This simplification was formalized in July, 1940 with a new paint reg specifying everything in plain dunkelgrau. Weirdly, virtually ALL of the formerly brown-over-grey vehicles ended up soon getting repainted - at the unit level - with the new monochrome dunkelgrau - which certainly required some expenditures for all the new paint! Go figure! Bob
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 12:16 PM UTC
In black/white photos (which most were) the brown camo appeared ALMOST the same as gray. At best it looked like dusty/dirty, or grimy areas. So you couldn't always be certain when vehicles were solid gray, or brown on gray camo.
In B/W:
Now the same vehicle in color:
In B/W:
Now the same vehicle in color:
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 07:01 PM UTC
I would like to know where the air hose is connected to in this picture?
Because it is not connected to the vehicle.
Because it is not connected to the vehicle.
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 07:23 PM UTC
The men could easily be running the paint spray gun off a smaller vehicle that also has an air compressor to conserve fuel.
b2nhvi
Joined: June 17, 2016
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Posted: Monday, January 28, 2019 - 07:25 PM UTC
"I would like to know where the air hose is connected to in this picture?
Because it is not connected to the vehicle." Your point? Just because you have a home generator, you don't use it when the power is still on. Maintenance areas , I'm sure had big compressors.
Because it is not connected to the vehicle." Your point? Just because you have a home generator, you don't use it when the power is still on. Maintenance areas , I'm sure had big compressors.
Kaktusas
Joined: April 12, 2017
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 03:47 AM UTC
Probably i was too deep in Panther/KT when i replied to this. Funny it is, that smoke blow off was not used earlier, just in longest barrels used bu Germans... On both of these tanks compressor is located in turret basket, air reservoir is circular lid on turret basket floor. I could not find reference on where it is possible to hook up the hose (and some valve to disconnect the breech blowers).
I understand it is possible to use it for "other" applications if needed, but it doesn't seem to be practical. I guess single exhaust pipe produces more air flow with engine idling
I cannot talk about smaller tanks tho. Some Maybach engines do have air compressors, used for creating vacuum, plus used in pneumatic shifting gearboxes. Got to dig some books to figure this one out.
I understand it is possible to use it for "other" applications if needed, but it doesn't seem to be practical. I guess single exhaust pipe produces more air flow with engine idling
I cannot talk about smaller tanks tho. Some Maybach engines do have air compressors, used for creating vacuum, plus used in pneumatic shifting gearboxes. Got to dig some books to figure this one out.
varanusk
Managing Editor
Joined: July 04, 2013
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 06:24 AM UTC
The Henschel D33 truck also had a compressor for the pneumatic brakes and, at first sight, I do not see any connection for external appliances.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 07:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I would like to know where the air hose is connected to in this picture?
Maybe to a portable compressor similar to the one included in Italeri/Tamiya "German Field Maintenance Team & Equipment set".
H.P.
namengr
Joined: September 01, 2014
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 07:42 AM UTC
Not sure if they had them then, but when I worked construction some of our trucks with air brakes would have a quick connector on the air reservoir tanks. Plug the hose in and have air for blowing out air filters and airing up low tires. Wayne
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 08:00 AM UTC
This is a myth.
The maintenance section would have compressors, paint and spray guns but not individual tanks.
German tanks had a compressor to blow out fumes in the Panther and Tiger series but I’m not sure in the smaller caliber guns.
Certainly the Pz I & II didn’t.
Dan
The maintenance section would have compressors, paint and spray guns but not individual tanks.
German tanks had a compressor to blow out fumes in the Panther and Tiger series but I’m not sure in the smaller caliber guns.
Certainly the Pz I & II didn’t.
Dan
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 08:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
This is a myth.
The maintenance section would have compressors, paint and spray guns but not individual tanks.
German tanks had a compressor to blow out fumes in the Panther and Tiger series but I’m not sure in the smaller caliber guns.
Certainly the Pz I & II didn’t.
Dan
Just waiting for a reply from Bovington on this as I emailed them this morning.
Not convinced onboard compressors were used to paint tanks.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 03:40 PM UTC
We don't have any photo record to evaluate the original thread query in detail - while there are pics showing crew (or folks who look like crew...) spray-painting German tanks - and NOT always in any evident "shop" location or setting, we do NOT have any clear evidence as to WHERE the air-compressor was located during that work.
It's very likely that crew would use an available shop compressor for this task. Portable compressors were available in small and large field shops, and probably standard equipment on repair trucks.
I would wager, however, that crew would use on-board equipment - if it actually existed - if they could not utilize a shop or other external compressor.
Perhaps modelers interested in depicting crew painting their vehicles could use available stand-alone compressor kits in their dios of this work. There would be no argument as to the validity of the scenario - at least as regards 1) crew did indeed spray-paint their tanks, and 2) spray-guns do require an air source!
Cheers! Bob
It's very likely that crew would use an available shop compressor for this task. Portable compressors were available in small and large field shops, and probably standard equipment on repair trucks.
I would wager, however, that crew would use on-board equipment - if it actually existed - if they could not utilize a shop or other external compressor.
Perhaps modelers interested in depicting crew painting their vehicles could use available stand-alone compressor kits in their dios of this work. There would be no argument as to the validity of the scenario - at least as regards 1) crew did indeed spray-paint their tanks, and 2) spray-guns do require an air source!
Cheers! Bob
Plasticat
Joined: September 03, 2003
KitMaker: 448 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, January 29, 2019 - 03:50 PM UTC
I can't speak for the Wehrmacht in the 40's, but, in the late 70's in Germany, when we painted our vehicles in the motor-pool, we hooked up the spray gun to the air system on the maintenance section's deuce and a half for the air supply or the little portable gas powered air compressor that was a part of our equipment.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 04:28 AM UTC
Where's David Byrden? He could sort this out - at least for Tiger l's!
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
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Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 - 05:06 AM UTC
To my knowledge all German halftracks had air brakes and therefore an air compressor. (Cannot speak as to German tanks but I suspect so.) The air compressor was located at the driver's side front corner of the engine and was mounted on the same rotating shaft as the generator. All halftracks also had a rear mounted air connector to attach brake air to trailers being towed.
As you see below the Famo had the air compressor and I have direct hands-on experience that the one ton halftrack also had air brakes and a compressor. So with this we have a readily available source of compressed air for painting and an easily accessible fitting to attach air accessories to.
I doubt this air compressor would have had the capacity to handle air driven power tools. However, especially given the multiple reserve air storage tanks (the Famo had three!) this air system would have been more than enough to handle a small paint spray gun.
As you see below the Famo had the air compressor and I have direct hands-on experience that the one ton halftrack also had air brakes and a compressor. So with this we have a readily available source of compressed air for painting and an easily accessible fitting to attach air accessories to.
I doubt this air compressor would have had the capacity to handle air driven power tools. However, especially given the multiple reserve air storage tanks (the Famo had three!) this air system would have been more than enough to handle a small paint spray gun.
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