Would this version of the Sheridan be appropriate for a Germany border guard unit, circa 1974 or so?

I think yes. It is suitable for a Hawaii 25 Div 3/4 Cav Sheridan in 1976. No differences that I can see. I also have the extra armor for the 50 cal mount, but that might not have been used in Europe.
The laser rangefinder and the later smoke launchers came later.
You might check out the gun barrel. My pics show a narrow straight barrel, like that on the AFV Club M60A2, AF35230 late version. You'd have to sand the band off the Tamiya barrel.

The 3/4 Cav ones have a section of track on the right side of the turret. Haven't seen that very often.

The correct answer is yes--with quite a few modifications:

1)Different barrel bore evacuators on Vietnam vehicles, the later Sheridans didn't have this.
2)Prominent laser range finder box under the .50 mount, with cables to the battery pack in the rear of the TCs armored plate "teacup" (that's what we called it in the 11th ACR)
3)No add on .50 cal armor shield).

Personally, I'm waiting for Takom's 2 in 1 kit which has the right mods.

VR, Russ

Well crap, lol, I have the kit but don’t plan on building it for a while. It’s a nice little kit, I’ll just wait out the aftermarket folks for a few months

In my troop we had all 3 gun barrels. They were not replaced unless they were worn out. All the tracks had lasers on the TC hatch they were A1s. The chicken shields on the TC hatch,(that's what we called them) were mounted but the part that was actually on the gun mount was not usually used. Personal preference on the TCs part.

Tom

So these are the best pics I can find, I don’t know crap about Sheridans, but this really looks like what’s in the Tamiya box. Any more advice guys, I really do appreciate the input. Notice the mix of barrels.

Def models has announced two different Sheridan barrels for the Tamiya kit.
http://www.defmodel.com/

Regards,

Marc

Some 25th Inf Div 3/4 Cav M551s taken at Schofield Barracks in 1976.









Martin (Marty) Swanson (Lance Corporal USMC retired) Great modeler.










Grant

Very nice, thank you, Grant!

Laser range finder came with A1 version. In 1974 there were still original M551 in service, so Tamiya kit is just fine without any mods.



RFM, not Takom. It will be A1 / A1 TTS version, so obviously it wi have later mods.

Keep in mind that there was an add on armor package for the Sheridan. Did they use it in Europe? I don't know for sure. Not every Sheridan had it Vietnam. The Tamiya kit looks like it has it molded on the hull in the photos. Rather been able to add it separately. There were two or three different gun shield styles.
Waiting to see the turret shape, and how they molded the rear angles and corners.
Gary

The Tamiya Kit belly armor is two separate pieces than can be left off. In fact by the way the whole kit is laid out, it looks like more versions could be planned

The Tamiya kit looks ok, but have never seen one in the flesh.
The RFM kit looks better from what have seen so far. Yet have never seen it in the flesh as well. I see it being better for an ODS track right off the bat. The tracker don't bother me as there are aftermarket tracks. I hate rubber band tracks!
The Tamiya starts out fifty dollars, but if you opt for the barrel and etch your going to have another twenty in it. Have zero desire to do the one with the brush guard, so I'll have to scratch build the turret rack. I did it once, and it was a pain getting everything at the right angles. Next would be easier.
Gary

Questions about the colorful Sheridans in Germany-
-what colors are these?

-are they brush painted?

-is the new tamiya kit good for these sheridans or would RFMs be a better pick?

-can anyone recommend a walk around of these colorful sheridans and any mods that are needed for them?
Thanks, Dan (a retired 19K)

The first photo is a famous one of an 11th ACR Sheridan (an M551 as opposed to an M551A1) sometime in the very early 70s. You can tell by the lack of the Laser and the the TCs "Football" style early helmet. By the time I reached 2nd Squadron in late 1976, it had replaced all its Sheridans with M551A1s with the laser rangefinders. In the nearly four years I spent there as a Plt Leader, XO, and S4, I never saw any "add-on" armored Sheilds for the .50 cal. I believe that's because they would have interferered with the laser RF. The 11th CAV was a priority unit for new equipment in USARER-- so it was usually fielded equipment before other units. We replaced the Sheridan in May 1980 with the M60A3, just as I was leaving the Squadron. The camoflage scheme in the photo is the MASSTER version, also a scheme used in the early 70s. Basic Green, brown, tan and black--the vehicle came from the depot in basic green, and the crew hand painted the brown, tan and black patches for the scheme. Note the rubberized flotation covers have been left in their black color (along the top of the hull). By 1976, my Squadron was using the MERDC scheme. I can't speak to the other CAV units, but by 76, MERDC had replaced the earlier scheme. One thing that bothers me about the Tamiya kit is the ring around the barrel. I don't recall any barrels with that feature, at least on the later A1 versions, but I have only seen photos of the kit. I'd recommend Squadron's M551 book, if you are interested in the MASSTER scheme, although it's not the most complete Sheridan book.
VR, Russ

Thanks Russ,
More questions-
-where is the LRF?
-where are the add on armored shields?
-which Squadron book do you recommend? Squadron looks to have two in action books.

LRF is in on the front side exterior of the commander's cupola, in a small box which overhung the edge of the cupola armored glass. The power cables ran on the underside of the commander's armor plate, back alongside the cupola to a battery pack that was just under the back of the armored "teacup" (again, that's what we called it in the 2/11 ACR). You can just see the box on the underside of the .50 mount in some photos. The "add-on armored shields I am speaking of are what was seen on some vehicles during Vietnam, generally "rescued" or "liberated" from the "ACAV" .50 mount found on some Vietnam era M113s. The original M551 came without armor for the commander's cupola. During Vietnam, the commander's armored plate was added, and some units then added a second add-on shield to cover the front of the .50. This is the add-on part I'm talking about, and I think that comes in the Tamiya kit as an option. The standard commander's armored plate was added to the M551, and came standard on the M551A1 adopted to mount the laser. By the way, the gunner didn't have the range finder, only the TC had it-- the TC would call out the range to the gunner (if the laser was working) and the gunner would apply that range to his standard gunners "choke" sights. This was for the standard 152mm round. The Missile used a separate IR system for targeting, sending an IR signal to the missile as it flew downrange, as long as the gunner kept his sights on the target, the missile would correct to hit were the gunner was looking. That sight system (with the drop down door closed it appears) can be seen just above the main gun tube just in front of the mantlet. The system could be very accurate-- under the right conditions, but imagine the confusion and obscurity of a battlefield- losing the IR signal was common. The missile had a "tracer" in the tail so the gunner could maintain visibility, but if the target became obscured, it would/could result in a miss. Missile rounds cost 5K a pop (a princely sum in the 1960-70s), so each tank only got to fire one a year for practice, and by 1979, it wa one per platoon. Conventional rounds were what most AARV crews were firing for training.
I have the original M551 book from Squadron which I think is an 80s edition- it's a good basic reference. I understand the newer "walk around" is basically a re-hash in a different format, but I've heard it's pretty good too. I'd say buy the earlier one with the M551 crossing a stream on the cover-- it ha a lot of MASSTER info in it, along with profiles. However, in my experience, the MERDC scheme was the most common in Europe in the mid-late 70's. It wa a lot easier to apply.
VR, Russ

Thanks Russ
D

Dan, I just dug through my references-- the Squadron "In Action" copy I have was published in 1990, and is number 28. Inside the front cover is an exact photo of the Sheridan that Tamiya obviously used for their kit from 3rd Sqdn 4th Cav 25th ID in 1969, right down to the poses of the crew members. Page 32 of the Squadron book has a diagram of the location of the LRF. There are subtle differences in the IR transmitter between the older and newer Sheridans-- I guess it comes down to how accurate you want to be. The one thing that disturbs me about the Tamiya kit is the band appearing around the barrel. I don't remember seeing that band on any of our M551A1s, but it definitely appears in some of the early "Closed Breech Scavenging System" Sheridans in the Vietnam section of the book, including the photo I mentioned. I'm wondering if it's left over from converting the early M551s to the CBSS (the original design used a gas scavenging system similar to that found in other MBTs, but it proved unsatisfactory for the cased shot ammo, so most tanks were eventually fitted with a compressor system which blew gases out of the barrel Which this is what you see in most later Sheridan photos, although one photo above has an early system parked next to the later system). One other thing-- all of our tanks in 2/11 ACR had a white "half arrow" painted near the topside end of the barrel on the TCs side. This was to help the TC lay the gun on the target for the gunner before using the LRF. The Sheridan barrel was so short it was difficult to get the barrel lined up properly sometimes, and the gunner would often have to "search the reticle" to acquire the target. I'm not sure how others did it, but since most of our senior NCOs were Vietnam vets, they told me it was a trick they learned there.
VR, Russ

Russ,
I just PMed you.
Thanks

Dan, a P.S. to my last post. You'll note in many of the photos there is no cover over the eight WP/Smoke grenade launchers (4 on either side of the turret). When these were loaded, the grenade stuck up slightly above the retaining ring, which effectively kept debris out. But in Europe, it was not common to drive around with loaded grenade launchers. So most Sheridan crews used the expended rubber protective covers from the 152mm conventional rounds to cover the launchers. These covers were peeled off the burnable cartridge cases before firing the round, and made great protective bags (for grenade launchers) and other items on the tank like antenna bases (when not in use) you could also poke a hole in them, make a loop from WD1, and hang them on the turret to carry small items. AARVs would often be seen with one or two grenade launchers without covers and covers over the rest. The grenade launchers were a real pain to keep clean without these covers.
VR, Russ