Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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scale effect...over thinking?
godfather
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 02:26 PM UTC
If there is one thing that I have learned from this forum is that armour, and German armour in particular, varied in color be it darker or lighter than the RLM standard. So if we were to take this scale effect and lighten the color by the given percentage based on scale, how do people know it's for scale effect or just to give the color variation due to conditions? What practical purpose does scale effect have in modelling?
Envar
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 06:58 PM UTC
Colouring is not an exact science.
You can take accurate proportions of right colours and mix them for a "perfect" result, still itīs another deal how it fits in a diorama colour scale.
I think the question is not what the right colour IS, but more like how the colour APPEARS in the model. A grey shade of a tank is affected by its surroundings. If the ground is yellowish, it gives the SAME gray tone a different twist than green ground.
And of course lighting plays a very big part in this.
For me colouring is more like a "gut feel" thing. Nobody can tell you what to do with a scene that has a "wrong feeling" in the colouring! Another way round, sometimes it may be that a "wrong" colour works better in a certain case...
I generally hate when things turn too technical and scientific...like at art school where they tried to teach how to be creative!
#:-)
Toni
You can take accurate proportions of right colours and mix them for a "perfect" result, still itīs another deal how it fits in a diorama colour scale.
I think the question is not what the right colour IS, but more like how the colour APPEARS in the model. A grey shade of a tank is affected by its surroundings. If the ground is yellowish, it gives the SAME gray tone a different twist than green ground.
And of course lighting plays a very big part in this.
For me colouring is more like a "gut feel" thing. Nobody can tell you what to do with a scene that has a "wrong feeling" in the colouring! Another way round, sometimes it may be that a "wrong" colour works better in a certain case...
I generally hate when things turn too technical and scientific...like at art school where they tried to teach how to be creative!
#:-)
Toni
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 07:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Colouring is not an exact science.
You can take accurate proportions of right colours and mix them for a "perfect" result, still itīs another deal how it fits in a diorama colour scale.
I think the question is not what the right colour IS, but more like how the colour APPEARS in the model. A grey shade of a tank is affected by its surroundings. If the ground is yellowish, it gives the SAME gray tone a different twist than green ground.
And of course lighting plays a very big part in this.
For me colouring is more like a "gut feel" thing. Nobody can tell you what to do with a scene that has a "wrong feeling" in the colouring! Another way round, sometimes it may be that a "wrong" colour works better in a certain case...
I generally hate when things turn too technical and scientific...like at art school where they tried to teach how to be creative!
#:-)
Toni
Toni, once again, I totally agree with you. As long as it's look good it's the right color.
So don't ridicule me if one day I decide to post a picture of my "Pink" Panther tank. #:-) #:-)
Eagle
Joined: May 22, 2002
KitMaker: 4,082 posts
Armorama: 1,993 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 08:56 PM UTC
That's right guys....colour is a gut feel thing.
Paint an object in a simple plain white colour, take photographs every hour of a day and see.....no two whites match...
The colour depends on the dio's, but also on the surrounding objects and the time of day. Next to that, colour is a psychological thing. The eyes don't really see the colour itself, but only see the colour they think it must be.
Put a man on a sunny day in a white T-shirt under a tree with leaves on it. Look at the man's Tshirt. You'll see a white shirt.... Now make a photograph of it and look again.....the shirt is ....green !!! Try and see !
Paint an object in a simple plain white colour, take photographs every hour of a day and see.....no two whites match...
The colour depends on the dio's, but also on the surrounding objects and the time of day. Next to that, colour is a psychological thing. The eyes don't really see the colour itself, but only see the colour they think it must be.
Put a man on a sunny day in a white T-shirt under a tree with leaves on it. Look at the man's Tshirt. You'll see a white shirt.... Now make a photograph of it and look again.....the shirt is ....green !!! Try and see !
Maki
Senior Editor
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 5,579 posts
Armorama: 2,988 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 - 10:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
For me colouring is more like a "gut feel" thing. Nobody can tell you what to do with a scene that has a "wrong feeling" in the colouring! Another way round, sometimes it may be that a "wrong" colour works better in a certain case...
I generally hate when things turn too technical and scientific...like at art school where they tried to teach how to be creative!
I couldn't have said it better. Sometimes it seems many people are obsessed with the "right" and "wrong" color... I have seen too many arguments about the perfect IDF color. In my oppinion it is a no-win situation. Work with what you find good, don't worry about some other guy's magic recipe.
Mario M.
GeneralFailure
Joined: February 15, 2002
KitMaker: 2,289 posts
Armorama: 1,231 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 04, 2002 - 03:16 AM UTC
There's more color difference between a wet tank and a dry one than there would be with any scale adjustment.
Just think of the origin of this adjustment theory :
Ask my opinion : scale adjustment is an excuse for scientists and engineers who want an excuse for the fact that their brains is all figures and not so much creativity - and they need an excuse to explain why they can't get their colors right.
... not to mention the color differences you get between the beginning of the evening and the end... if you have a bozzle of wizkey bezidez you while you paint...
Just think of the origin of this adjustment theory :
Ask my opinion : scale adjustment is an excuse for scientists and engineers who want an excuse for the fact that their brains is all figures and not so much creativity - and they need an excuse to explain why they can't get their colors right.
... not to mention the color differences you get between the beginning of the evening and the end... if you have a bozzle of wizkey bezidez you while you paint...
ponysoldier
Joined: March 13, 2002
KitMaker: 223 posts
Armorama: 110 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2002 - 02:36 AM UTC
I concur with all that has been said. The color scheme of any model can be
altered buy alot even the lense of the camra(????). All I can say is to scale
and historically correct,can you make mixing paints a scenince? to be sure.
But look at your subject if you put 3 tracks together side by side ypu would note
a difference. Basic color is effected buy weather the terrerain and the human
condition.I get close but I have fun with it , and thats what is all about.
ponysoldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
altered buy alot even the lense of the camra(????). All I can say is to scale
and historically correct,can you make mixing paints a scenince? to be sure.
But look at your subject if you put 3 tracks together side by side ypu would note
a difference. Basic color is effected buy weather the terrerain and the human
condition.I get close but I have fun with it , and thats what is all about.
ponysoldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
swampfox
Joined: June 10, 2002
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, July 05, 2002 - 09:12 AM UTC
I'll give you an example that happened at a model contest I attended. One of the contestants entered a Desert Storm M1A1. When it came time for judging, everyone who saw it thought it would place but the judges didn't even pick it. When the entrant questioned the judges, thier answer was that the color was wrong to which the entrant replied that he was in Desert Storm and painted the Tanks and when he built the model he used the exact paint that he painted them with. Evidently, he was right about the color and to him the color looked right, but obviously the judges were taking in the scale effect and to them the color was wrong
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