I'm a dyed in the wool Enamels and Lacquer person. My favorite paint is Gunze Mr. Color, followed by Tamiya Acrylic Lacquer, followed by Model Master. But on a whim, while walking through my local Hobby Lobby, I found some Vallejo Air and a package of US Army OD colors on sale, and bought them. I have some unpainted 1/72 scale armor I want to get painted. My questions are:
1) What kind of primer should I use for Vallejo Air and Vallejo Acrylic colors?
2) Can I use my standard Tamiya colors, or my Model Master Enamel colors as a primer coat? (In this case I'd go with black or gray as a primer--are they ok as a base for Vallejo?).
I normally don't use a specially prepared "primer"-- I generally just go with a first coat of a compatible paint when I use Lacquers or enamels-- and sometimes don't use a primer at all. I don't think I can do that with these Vallejo paints, can I?
VR, Russ
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What Primers for Vallejo Air and Vallejo?
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 07:45 AM UTC
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 08:16 AM UTC
So long as you let the primer cure, before laying down another coat you can use anything you like. I have used AK, Stynylrez, MM lacquer and Vallejo(don't recommend this). Almost forgot, an old bottle of Floquil.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 09:18 AM UTC
I generally use Tamiya Extra Fine or Mr Surfacer 1200 as a primer,really effective.No problems spraying Vallejo over it.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 11:12 AM UTC
OK-- it looks like it will work over Lacquer and enamel primers (and Tamiya Acrylics). Next question-- How durable is it over these primers? Has anyone used the Vallejo primer over bare plastic, if so, how durable is that? Sorry for the questions-- its a new medium for me, and I don't want to screw up a model just for a paint issue. I tend to super detail (in 1/72 armor this can be intimidating) and I don't want to have to strip off paint.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
retiredyank
Joined: June 29, 2009
KitMaker: 11,610 posts
Armorama: 7,843 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 11:20 AM UTC
I have tried a few Vallejo primers, over bare plastic. Red oxide had a nice bite, but black and grey lifted even after 36 hours. I sprayed these on the same sheet stock, so it was controlled.
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 12:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I generally use Tamiya Extra Fine or Mr Surfacer 1200 as a primer,really effective.No problems spraying Vallejo over it.
Ditto - pretty much on any brand of paint I use.
Cheers
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Friday, March 15, 2019 - 03:45 PM UTC
Stynylrez 100%. Never had any issues and you can sand it down to a feathered edge when cured. Rock solid with a long cute time. Just don’t thin with anything.
white4doc
#429
Joined: October 14, 2003
KitMaker: 1,086 posts
Armorama: 964 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 01:13 AM UTC
+1 for Stylnrez. I tried it because we were out of my go to brand at the store, and I was hooked. My new go to - also, the AMMO of Mig is Stylnrez labeled for them (bit of trivia I used to see the practice all the time when I worked at Norton company, 3M Abrasives are made by Norton and labeled for 3M).
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 01:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
+1 for Stylnrez. I tried it because we were out of my go to brand at the store, and I was hooked. My new go to - also, the AMMO of Mig is Stylnrez labeled for them (bit of trivia I used to see the practice all the time when I worked at Norton company, 3M Abrasives are made by Norton and labeled for 3M).
Makes sense about the rebranding. Why fix something that works?
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 04:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Stynylrez 100%. Never had any issues and you can sand it down to a feathered edge when cured. Rock solid with a long cute time. Just don’t thin with anything.
Ok, so now I'm concerned about cure times. How long do you consider "cured" with primers before applying Vallejo? Normally using enamel or lacquer based paints, I consider the primer cured in about two to three hours. But it sounds like the primers you guys are referring to might take a little longer-- 24-48 hours? Is this because these primers are enamel based and the Vallejo is an Acrylic? I've been watching a few YouTube videos, but I don't get any sense of the dry times in them.
VR, Russ
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 04:32 AM UTC
Another vote for stynylrez/AMMO of Mig One Shot. Right from the bottle no thinning and levels out with no issues. Now if they'd come out with an acrylic line of paint that was as trouble free and easy to use.
drewgimpy
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 835 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 04:51 AM UTC
When using the Vallejo I would suggest you add their flow improver. I am fairly new to air brushing but I would get so much tip dry I almost gave up on that brand without it. I know that wasn't your question but thought I would mention it.
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 05:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
When using the Vallejo I would suggest you add their flow improver. I am fairly new to air brushing but I would get so much tip dry I almost gave up on that brand without it. I know that wasn't your question but thought I would mention it.
In my experience, the flow improver can start doing funny things with the paint if you use it for things like base coating or other surfaces. It does work well if you want to turn down the pressure and do tight camo patterns. For larger surfaces it can also affect the integrity of the paint and leave it more prone to scratching because it doesn’t cure the same way.
Airbrush thinner (Vallejo for Vallejo paints) works really well so you can avoid dry tip. I prefer the pints thinner than usual so there’s more control rather than worrying about orange peel or swamping surfaces.
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 05:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextStynylrez 100%. Never had any issues and you can sand it down to a feathered edge when cured. Rock solid with a long cute time. Just don’t thin with anything.
Ok, so now I'm concerned about cure times. How long do you consider "cured" with primers before applying Vallejo? Normally using enamel or lacquer based paints, I consider the primer cured in about two to three hours. But it sounds like the primers you guys are referring to might take a little longer-- 24-48 hours? Is this because these primers are enamel based and the Vallejo is an Acrylic? I've been watching a few YouTube videos, but I don't get any sense of the dry times in them.
VR, Russ
You can touch and paint over the primer after 5-10 minutes. I’d wait several hours to potentially a day to be able sand it really well, we’ll enough so it can feather. I’ve done 5-7 models so far with this primer and have painted over it almost immediately after application and have never had a problem. What I do after is let the base coat and/or camo cure for a week before I start decals and any weathering, so everything is rock solid and I don’t risk damaging the paint work. The primer also works well for metal barrels and PE, but I prefer to lightly scuff all those with 800 grit sanding sticks, wash with detergent, then prime.
Also, Vallejo and stynylrez primers are all acrylic. There’s no solvent smell to them.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 09:52 AM UTC
Ok, so I went to my LHS and bought a bottle of tan Stylynlrez primer, and a larger bottle of Vallejo thinner (already had bottles of AB thinner— two older ones that are milky colored, and one that’s clear, plus a small bottle of flow enhancer). So I guess I’m all set- one last question for you all— I used to wash my model spruced right out of the box. But I haven’t done that for several years, as I found the lacquer and enamel based paints and primers will coat well without washing (I mostly use lacquer thinner for thinning my AB paints, even enamels and oils). So, is there any plastic prep that needs to be done with Stynlrez? By the way— what kind of name is that?😆?? And thanks all for your recommendations and help.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Doodeck
Joined: August 15, 2014
KitMaker: 155 posts
Armorama: 154 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 10:17 AM UTC
Wash the parts. Let them dry. Apply Stynylrez in few thin layers until full coverage. Let it dry for a day. Fully sandable. Never look back at another primer. 
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 10:51 AM UTC
This is very interesting. I have never heard of Stynylrez. Plus I am surprised it is from Badger (I own a few of their AB's). I prefer the rattle can primers (Tamiya, Gunze..) for one reason, I don't have to clean my AB after use. I am tempted to try this stuff out. I have other non-rattle can primers stashed in the paint stash (in this hobby there is a stash for everything) but again I just got lazy and I can spray everything with a rattle can and not have to deal with AB cleanup.
Cheers
Cheers
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 11:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Wash the parts. Let them dry. Apply Stynylrez in few thin layers until full coverage. Let it dry for a day. Fully sandable. Never look back at another primer.
Correct, sprues can be washed simply with detergent. A day for curing for sanding also sounds right.
Another thing I would recommend for the primer is placing 1-2 ball bearings in. It is a primer and is slightly more viscous. It still needs to be homogenized as thoroughly as possible and ball bearings work well.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 05:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextWash the parts. Let them dry. Apply Stynylrez in few thin layers until full coverage. Let it dry for a day. Fully sandable. Never look back at another primer.
Correct, sprues can be washed simply with detergent. A day for curing for sanding also sounds right.
Another thing I would recommend for the primer is placing 1-2 ball bearings in. It is a primer and is slightly more viscous. It still needs to be homogenized as thoroughly as possible and ball bearings work well.
Well, here's the problem-- for the three models I have in mind, they are already built (I generally build armor to a 90% state before I paint-- it's just something I do-- I'd prefer not to "wash" them at this point-- I doubt I'd ever get all the water out. So I guess I'll just take a chance on my standard Tamiya paint mixed with a little lacquer thinner as primer. I might try one of them with the Stylenre just to see what happens. Thanks to all of you who replied to my query, I really appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to trying a new paint line (from my perspective it's new!).
VR,
Russ
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 06:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextWash the parts. Let them dry. Apply Stynylrez in few thin layers until full coverage. Let it dry for a day. Fully sandable. Never look back at another primer.
Correct, sprues can be washed simply with detergent. A day for curing for sanding also sounds right.
Another thing I would recommend for the primer is placing 1-2 ball bearings in. It is a primer and is slightly more viscous. It still needs to be homogenized as thoroughly as possible and ball bearings work well.
Well, here's the problem-- for the three models I have in mind, they are already built (I generally build armor to a 90% state before I paint-- it's just something I do-- I'd prefer not to "wash" them at this point-- I doubt I'd ever get all the water out. So I guess I'll just take a chance on my standard Tamiya paint mixed with a little lacquer thinner as primer. I might try one of them with the Stylenre just to see what happens. Thanks to all of you who replied to my query, I really appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to trying a new paint line (from my perspective it's new!).
VR,
Russ
It shouldn’t really be a problem tomprime unwashed models. I don’t think it will affect the paint that much. On the other hand, I’ve washed several completed models before painting just to get all the fingerprints and hand oil off.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 16, 2019 - 08:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextWash the parts. Let them dry. Apply Stynylrez in few thin layers until full coverage. Let it dry for a day. Fully sandable. Never look back at another primer.
Correct, sprues can be washed simply with detergent. A day for curing for sanding also sounds right.
Another thing I would recommend for the primer is placing 1-2 ball bearings in. It is a primer and is slightly more viscous. It still needs to be homogenized as thoroughly as possible and ball bearings work well.
Well, here's the problem-- for the three models I have in mind, they are already built (I generally build armor to a 90% state before I paint-- it's just something I do-- I'd prefer not to "wash" them at this point-- I doubt I'd ever get all the water out. So I guess I'll just take a chance on my standard Tamiya paint mixed with a little lacquer thinner as primer. I might try one of them with the Stylenre just to see what happens. Thanks to all of you who replied to my query, I really appreciate it, and I'm looking forward to trying a new paint line (from my perspective it's new!).
VR,
Russ
If I've done a lot of sanding during the build prior to painting I'll give it a quick clean. I'll hit it with IPA from a spray bottle or windex and use a fan brush or mascara brush to gently scrub it down then a quick rinse with windex or IPA then hit it with air from my air brush to dry it. I'll then set it in my paint booth with a fan going to dry it. A couple of hours it will be dry. The trick is to do this quickly and not saturated the model so the cleaner doesn't soak into cracks, putty and to have air moving to evaporate everything. Windex and IPA evaporate fast with no residue.
When I was researching stynylrez I found these two videos that convinced me to try it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDm3BhnTQ5A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSDtFbWRB-o
Robbd01
#323
Joined: February 13, 2013
KitMaker: 791 posts
Armorama: 344 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 10:17 AM UTC
After following this post, I broke down and ordered a 2oz bottle of this reported wonderful stuff (grey).
Cheers
Cheers
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 10:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
After following this post, I broke down and ordered a 2oz bottle of this reported wonderful stuff (grey).
Cheers
Just shake before use. (The bottle).
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 11:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAfter following this post, I broke down and ordered a 2oz bottle of this reported wonderful stuff (grey).
Cheers
Just shake before use. (The bottle).
Krupp,
Thanks, I haven't tried mine yet, but I'm looking forward to trying this new medium (primer and paint--at least new to me) soon. I'll let you all know how it works out. In the meantime, if anyone else has experiences with this suff, please post.
VR, Russ
KruppCake
Joined: July 13, 2015
KitMaker: 401 posts
Armorama: 387 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 20, 2019 - 11:32 AM UTC
[quote]
Sounds good, let us know how it goes.
Quoted Text
Quoted TextAfter following this post, I broke down and ordered a 2oz bottle of this reported wonderful stuff (grey).
Cheers
Just shake before use. (The bottle).
Krupp,
Thanks, I haven't tried mine yet, but I'm looking forward to trying this new medium (primer and paint--at least new to me) soon. I'll let you all know how it works out. In the meantime, if anyone else has experiences with this suff, please post.
VR, Russ
Sounds good, let us know how it goes.
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