I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

Not sure about those "torsion bars" on a Sherman, but my guess about the track is they could be using an engineering plastic like Tamiya used on its Mk IV WWI tank so they aren't as breakable as styrene. Time will tell...

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I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

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Hi, John!

Actually, photographic evidence shows that MANY different M4-series Tanks could be equipped with EITHER the Early or Later type of Return Roller Brackets, but usually not on the same Tank at the same time.

IMO, I think that it would be wise for MENG to issue their new M4A3 76mm (Wet) kits with BOTH styles, following suit to TAMIYA, ACADEMY, DRAGON and TASCA/ASUKA. I believe that ITALERI and TESTORS/ITALERI were really the only model companies that issued their Shermans and Sherman-based kits with only the later-style Return Roller Brackets. I really wouldn't have any fears over that if I were you...

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When it comes to interior bits among kits, the Sherman is among the least well served. How many T-34, pzkpfw IV have full machine guns? Yet Sherman (other than the ancient Italeri kits) all have stub barrels. I think the only large scale Sherman with a 75mm gun breach was the Monogram kit from the 1970s.

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Actually, the now old Tamiya early M4 kit (35190) comes with a 75mm gun breach, guard, and radio. Rather basic parts though. Many newer German armor models come with much of the turret interior, even if they are not interior kits. We need the same for our Shermans.

I am curious about the part of the description that states "High strength workable tracks with duckbill end connectors". Are they some super plastic? Metal? It will be interesting to find out.

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Hi, Randall!

I was going to post something similar to what you did, regarding the old TAMIYA 35190 M4 kit- You beat me to it, so that's OK, too...

Re: The Tracks of the new MENG M4A3 76mm (Wet)- I should think that a set of metal Tracks a la FRIULISMO would be too expensive, unless MENG plans to sell this kit in the $100.00 + USD neighborhood. Anyone price metal Track sets lately..? One needs to arrange a second mortgage on the house in order to afford metal Tracks any more...

ONE of my guesses would be that these new SUPER-DUPER "High-Strength Workable Tracks" COULD be conventional styrene plastic "Indy-link" Tracks, molded in upper and lower Track Pad halves, a la BRONCO; these COULD possibly utilize ONE-PIECE cast-metal(?) Track Pins/Track End-Connectors/Track Guides of some sort, SANDWICHED between the upper and lower Track Pad halves..? This would give the Tracks more strength, but this is only ONE possibility. IMO, by MENG producing these new Tracks in this fashion would also seem to be an unduly expensive way for MENG to manufacture ANY of the various types of Sherman VVSS-style Tracks. HVSS-style Tracks are of a totally different design, and I would think that MENG could manufacture them by more conventional means.

It would also seem, to me anyway, that MENG would be better-off if they just cast the Tracks in ONE-PIECE METAL Indy links, with the Track Pins cast integrally at the ends of the Track Pads. Cast metal Track End-Connectors/Track Guides could possibly be attached to the Pads by "press-fit"... Yes, no, maybe..?

IF MENG discovered some "High-Strength" specially-formulated plastic, there is STILL the question of the End-Connectors/Track Guides which would necessarily have to be manufactured separately, in order connect the VVSS-style Track Pads- Wouldn't it be cheaper for MENG just to come up with a better-formulated "DS"-style PLASTIC and manufacture conventional but nearly universally-detested "Rubber-Band" Tracks..?

HOWEVER, one wonders what EXACTLY could constitute, or justify the 1200 + parts count..? My money is on some form of "Indy-Links" AND an INTERIOR...

Opinions..?

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Not sure about those "torsion bars" on a Sherman, but my guess about the track is they could be using an engineering plastic like Tamiya used on its Mk IV WWI tank so they aren't as breakable as styrene. Time will tell...

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Which "Torsion Bars" are you referring to..? ON a Sherman..? There WAS however, at least ONE M4A2 which was tested with a six-Double-Road Wheel (per side) Torsion-Bar Suspension, using wider 24-inch Tracks, Sprockets and Rear Idlers. The HVSS-type Suspension was adopted, instead...

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Not sure about those "torsion bars" on a Sherman, but my guess about the track is they could be using an engineering plastic like Tamiya used on its Mk IV WWI tank so they aren't as breakable as styrene. Time will tell...

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Which "Torsion Bars" are you referring to..? ON a Sherman..? There WAS however, at least ONE M4A2 which was tested with a six-Double-Road Wheel (per side) Torsion-Bar Suspension, using wider 24-inch Tracks, Sprockets and Rear Idlers. The HVSS-type Suspension was adopted, instead...

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Hi Dennis,

The link to the poster has "workable track" and "workable torsion bars" written on it! Of course, the actual subject M4A3 VVSS doesn't have any torsion bars, but as stated by others it may be a mis-translation for the bogie arms and springs...

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Not sure about those "torsion bars" on a Sherman, but my guess about the track is they could be using an engineering plastic like Tamiya used on its Mk IV WWI tank so they aren't as breakable as styrene. Time will tell...

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Which "Torsion Bars" are you referring to..? ON a Sherman..? There WAS however, at least ONE M4A2 which was tested with a six-Double-Road Wheel (per side) Torsion-Bar Suspension, using wider 24-inch Tracks, Sprockets and Rear Idlers. The HVSS-type Suspension was adopted, instead...

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Hi Dennis,

The link to the poster has "workable track" and "workable torsion bars" written on it! Of course, the actual subject M4A3 VVSS doesn't have any torsion bars, but as stated by others it may be a mis-translation for the bogie arms and springs...

"M4A2 with 24in tracks and torsion bar suspension"...

I never said this was a M4A2, just that I would like to see one next. I am well aware of other manufacturers making kits of it. Slow down.....

Chris

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"M4A2 with 24in tracks and torsion bar suspension"...

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.....Koolness

Sounds good! I think I've seen a pic of the beast at some point - there was a lot of experimentation that we don't often see. If you build it, you have to post it here!

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Not sure about those "torsion bars" on a Sherman, but my guess about the track is they could be using an engineering plastic like Tamiya used on its Mk IV WWI tank so they aren't as breakable as styrene. Time will tell...

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Which "Torsion Bars" are you referring to..? ON a Sherman..? There WAS however, at least ONE M4A2 which was tested with a six-Double-Road Wheel (per side) Torsion-Bar Suspension, using wider 24-inch Tracks, Sprockets and Rear Idlers. The HVSS-type Suspension was adopted, instead...

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Hi Dennis,

The link to the poster has "workable track" and "workable torsion bars" written on it! Of course, the actual subject M4A3 VVSS doesn't have any torsion bars, but as stated by others it may be a mis-translation for the bogie arms and springs...

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About 20 years ago when AFV-Club did their VVSS suspension set it was advertised as having working torsion bars which referred to the bogie arms.

As for the high strength workable tracks? That probably refers to a snap together track that doesn't pop apart when you look at it cross eyed. A lot of times with transliteration in addition to translation it's not the actual words as opposed to the intended meaning that counts.

Meng is doing a first production M4A3 76mm which just like first M4A1 and M4A2 76mm could have had the straight arms. The first ones were produced along side 75mm tanks not instead of, the M4A1 line was totally switched over very soon. There's a whole lot of mix and match in Sherman minutiae and the watch word is "Never, say NEVER" You'll proclaim it didn't exist and up will pop a photo of it or worse yet an existing example.

Just like I found an example of a remanufactured M4A1 in NW Europe with the original top return roller bogies. It shouldn't exist. Applique armor and a M34A1 mantle and original bogies. But... but... There's another shot of a tank with a mix of the top return roller and trailing return roller bogies.

And road wheels were always mixed. I've seen one Sherman with a mixture of open spoke, solid spoke and solid dished road wheels. Another reason I like Academy kits. They give all three types in many of their Sherman kits so you can mix and match.

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"M4A2 with 24in tracks and torsion bar suspension"...

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.....Koolness

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THANK YOU, ERIC!

This IS the critter; you've supplied a slightly different photo of it from another angle...

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I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

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Hi, John!

Actually, photographic evidence shows that MANY different M4-series Tanks could be equipped with EITHER the Early or Later type of Return Roller Brackets, but usually not on the same Tank at the same time.

IMO, I think that it would be wise for MENG to issue their new M4A3 76mm (Wet) kits with BOTH styles, following suit to TAMIYA, ACADEMY, DRAGON and TASCA/ASUKA. I believe that ITALERI and TESTORS/ITALERI were really the only model companies that issued their Shermans and Sherman-based kits with only the later-style Return Roller Brackets. I really wouldn't have any fears over that if I were you...

Puzzling, with all the superb books and info around on Shermans, we have Meng still making errors, at least in their CADs. A lack of research and attention to basic details I hope they correct before releasing this kit.

Puzzling, with all the superb books and info around on Shermans, we have Meng still making errors, at least in their CADs. A lack of research and attention to basic details I hope they correct before releasing this kit.

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I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

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Hi, John!

Actually, photographic evidence shows that MANY different M4-series Tanks could be equipped with EITHER the Early or Later type of Return Roller Brackets, but usually not on the same Tank at the same time.

IMO, I think that it would be wise for MENG to issue their new M4A3 76mm (Wet) kits with BOTH styles, following suit to TAMIYA, ACADEMY, DRAGON and TASCA/ASUKA. I believe that ITALERI and TESTORS/ITALERI were really the only model companies that issued their Shermans and Sherman-based kits with only the later-style Return Roller Brackets. I really wouldn't have any fears over that if I were you...

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Dennis, large hatch 'A3 should only have upswept return roller brackets.
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a376w/m4a3_76w.html

Dan

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"M4A2 with 24in tracks and torsion bar suspension"...

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.....Koolness

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THANK YOU, ERIC!

This IS the critter; you've supplied a slightly different photo of it from another angle...

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Even has it's own specific designation M4A2E4. The suspension looks similar to the T20E3 which would put it in the line of development to the M26.

Personally I'd love to see the whole T20, T23 series in plastic to go with the German wartime prototype kits that are trickling out.

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I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

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Hi, John!

Actually, photographic evidence shows that MANY different M4-series Tanks could be equipped with EITHER the Early or Later type of Return Roller Brackets, but usually not on the same Tank at the same time.

IMO, I think that it would be wise for MENG to issue their new M4A3 76mm (Wet) kits with BOTH styles, following suit to TAMIYA, ACADEMY, DRAGON and TASCA/ASUKA. I believe that ITALERI and TESTORS/ITALERI were really the only model companies that issued their Shermans and Sherman-based kits with only the later-style Return Roller Brackets. I really wouldn't have any fears over that if I were you...

I'm also waiting for a Sherman with interior, in specifically the HVSS variants. Having the T-34/85 interior from AFV and the Tiger I from RFM, the Sherman is on the very top of my wish list.

On the subject about the versions, the M4A2 76W HVSS (or M4A2E8 76) was used to replace the Sherman Grizzly I as the training vehicle, and Canadian tankers then used the M4A3 76W HVSS during the Korea War (according to the vet at my tiny local museum). Even though it was only training vehicle, it is still somewhat nice to have.

Im not sure if the Soviet did get the HVSS variant of the M4A2 76W or not because most of the info give me the VVSS variant. I do know that the Russia has some M4A2 76W HVSS in museum, though, I hear that they are savaged around the world and from bottom of the sea.

The M4A1 76W HVSS was used by the French and some 3rd world countries.

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I just hope the kit comes with upswept return rollers. I'm pretty sure no M4A3 76(w) had the straight return rollers.

John

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Hi, John!

Actually, photographic evidence shows that MANY different M4-series Tanks could be equipped with EITHER the Early or Later type of Return Roller Brackets, but usually not on the same Tank at the same time.

IMO, I think that it would be wise for MENG to issue their new M4A3 76mm (Wet) kits with BOTH styles, following suit to TAMIYA, ACADEMY, DRAGON and TASCA/ASUKA. I believe that ITALERI and TESTORS/ITALERI were really the only model companies that issued their Shermans and Sherman-based kits with only the later-style Return Roller Brackets. I really wouldn't have any fears over that if I were you...

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Dennis, large hatch 'A3 should only have upswept return roller brackets.
http://the.shadock.free.fr/sherman_minutia/manufacturer/m4a376w/m4a3_76w.html

Dan