Hobbymodels.com I placed a pre-order with them last year. The item apparently never came in. I contacted them about it. They responded I had a store credit. I ordered again and said to use my store credit...they didnt charged my card again. I thought well its a pre-order again. So i sent several emails telling them to apply my store credit to a cheaper kit. NO RESPONSE. So OK I placed order following their instructions to place the store credit info in the text area. They charged my card again. Then they list the item as OOS after i ordered it. I have sent several emails....no response. I have asked for full refund. Tried a large kit substitution. nada.. Next step will be BBB

Steve, I'd add that you need to contact your credit card company as well-- see if they can reimburse you. Sometimes they will reverse credit.
VR, Russ

Hi, Steve!

THANKS for the "Heads-Up"... Won't be using THOSE people, if that's the kind of "runaround" they give their customers...

They are connected to internethobbies.com and that fake Takom site. Total scum bags. I'm on several facebook modeling groups and they pop up once in awhile as being ripoff artists.

Im echoing the comments saying to contact your credit card company. If you can show the communication attempts, they will look into it and likely give your money back.

BBB has no teeth. I don't think it matters whatsoever if a company is put on there.

Contacting the BBB is a total waste of time. They will do nothing. As was said above, contacting your credit card company is your only recourse.

Except the time length of the charges made...one was Feb 2018. The last one was 3 months ago. So unlikely they will be able to reverse charges. LOL I do not save statements, but will contact them just in case. So no matter what will trash them on every modeling site I belong to....at least warn off my fellow modelers

The BBB will do nothing. They are a pay for play organization where you can pay to have a bad rating for your company removed. They have become a joke. Here is a story about how they operate, it's an older story but they still operate this way so don't waste your time. For almost $500 they gave a non-existent company called "Hamas" an A- rating. They don't care, they are sitting on a revenue generating machine as long as people believe that the BBB is a non-profit organization that cares about the consumer
https://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/business-bureau-best-ratings-money-buy/story?id=12123843

Contact your credit card company and only do business with companies that use PayPal. I've had money paid to bad vendors refunded thru PayPal that my credit card co wouldn't touch.

It could also be considered wire fraud. Good luck finding anyone that would care.

What I would do is look up their local law enforcement, police, sheriff, and the state AG. I would also add the FCC, and postal service.

Then send a letter to the business explaining that if they don't return your money you will be informing the above of their fraudulent activities. Make sure you list name and addresses of the above so they know you mean business. The state AG in their state would be a good place to start. I've done this a couple of times and gotten satisfaction after the AG got involved.

I wouldn't blow this off. That is how scumb bag business stay active. Once you do all the above you could provide it to others that have the same problem.

Remember the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

I have to agree with Steve B. above. But still say you need to contact your credit card company. I think I've relayed this before here on Armorama, but when I was living in Colorado Springs, there was a Model Railroad Store I used to frequent. I noticed there wasn't a lot of stock on the shelves. But there was quite a bit of brass on "consignment". I put some money down (about $100 cash) on one of the HON3 locomotives to hold it. A month or so later, I went back to make the final payment, and the store was closed-- completely emptied out! My money was gone. A few months later, I went to another LHS on the north end of town. It was there that I learned the closed shop had actually been part of a theft ring, and the "owner" was wanted for theft and fraud in at least three states-- California, Colorado and Kansas. He was well known to the State AGs, and wanted for mail fraud by the USPS. Unfortunately, I never got my cash back. But, I understand he was arrested in Kansas for mail fraud and after serving a sentence there, was extradited to California to be tried for theft. His mail order business practices sound an awful lot like what's happened to you. I would say to anyone, stick with mail order businesses and LHS that you know are legitimate, and remember a "good deal" might be "too good to be true"-- As the Colorado Springs police told me when I filed my complaint. There are only a few mail order shops I use my regular credit card with-- and those are pretty reputable places discussed on all the modeling sites. All others I either buy an Amazon card or an eBay card, and I start with small purchases to test them (under $50). If they don't take those cards, I don't buy. That way, my credit card is not exposed to less than reputable folks.
VR, Russ

So, for you doubters about the veracity of the BBB, I've just noted over on Model Shipways, Tim Reynaga has posted the BBB reviews of the business in question. All bad. The BBB listing is not an enforcement agency, only a compilation of "legitimate" businesses. And their reviews. The mail order place in question is definitely NOT a good business. It might behoove us all to check the BBB reviews before ordering, as some of these comments go back a while. There's the real value of the BBB-- helping your fellow modelers to avoid being victims of fraud. I'd say for sure to report these guys. Here's the link Tim provided:

https://www.bbb.org/us/pa/south-canaan/profile/retail-hobby-supplies/hobby-models-llc-0241-236014649/complaints

VR, Russ

People start businesses out of their home or basement then get overwhelmed in what it really takes to run a business. I knew a person who started this type of shop who's whole end game was to buy kits for himself at a wholesalers rate. When their contact page has no proper address I can be a bit skeptical.

Good Luck

Steve, first of all not saving statements AT ALL is a bad idea for just this reason. That said, just because you don't receive or save paper statements doesn't mean you can't "save" statements.

I'm assuming you have an on line account? They typically retain at LEAST 18 months worth of statements on line.

Go back and check, and dude, do yourself a favor. As a minimum create a file folder on your computer and download and save a PDF of your statement every month. I have had EXCELLENT results recovering money through my credit card company when some unscrupulous vendor has tried to cheat me out of money.

You can get all sorts of opinions on how long to keep records, and I am WAAAAAAY on the "keep them too long" end of the spectrum. But I have NEVER regretted it. Just sayin'....

In general I agree that you can sometimes get better results through PayPal than through your Credit Card Company.

But PayPal is not without their issues.

DESPITE their assurance to me that they NEVER link two PayPal accounts to the SAME bank account, I have had my checking account hacked by a fraudulent PayPal account.

They fixed the problem, and I closed and reopened a new checking account (a MAJOR PITA ) but while they were able to check MANUALLY that there were TWO PayPal users linked to the same (my) checking account, despite the fact they say they don't allow that, it happens and there is no automatic algorithm that prevents it.

Word to the wise.

Quick followup. I contacted my credit card company and got 2 of the recent charges reversed. I thank all of you who advised me to do this. I will follow through on my promise to contact BBB...as Russ pointed out...it will just alert others that this business is questionable. Which was the main thing I have been trying to do.

At least file a complaint with the state AG. You should be able to do it online. Don't let them screw others.

I have done a lot of on-line buying over many years - probably like most folks. My wife and I are comfortable with and active within today's diverse global economy - we've bought almost everything imaginable via the web and on-line...

If you buy enough things from enough different folks, my expectation is that it is almost INEVITABLE that you'll run into some problem sometime.

I learned how to keep the various problems to a very dull and tiny "roar":

1) I very, very seldom ever give credit card info to any vendor. The fewer folks who have that info, the fewer times you'll get scammed on your card.

2) I use PayPal - almost exclusively. In fact, unless I have no recourse to buy it elsewhere AND I just GOTTA BUY IT, I DON'T buy it unless the seller takes PayPal. Yes, PP is not perfect. But they have made good every little problem I've ever brought to their attention. NOT Perfect, but pretty close to!

3) I keep records of all card and PP purchases, and carefully check and reconcile each card statement each month to see if any unknown charges come up. IF they do - I get right onto the card company about the charges.

4) I NEVER give out any bank account info to anyone without knowing exactly why I need to give them that info. And again, I'll still only share that info if I cannot get around it.

4b) Where I DO have to share bank acct and check info... I maintain a separate, limited checking acct to support those moments.

5) I carefully check each monthly bank statement just like it was a CC statement - KNOW where the money went and how.

6) I check vendor's records and ratings and avoid all those with records that are not compellingly GOOD. This includes checking buyer-ratings on forums like Armorama, etc, when possible. There's all sorts to choose from - why choose to deal with someone less then really solid-looking?

7) I avoid deals "too good to be true". Yeah. A FEW of those were actually TRUE. My loss, I'll guess! But this is the scammer's MAJOR opportunity and "hook" - "I got something SPECIAL, JUST FOR YOU!"

NOTHING, short of never indulging in the global economy in any way (including never connecting to it), is a perfect way to skip getting scammed sometime. But I've suffered all of 3 false charges on CC in 30 years (all cleared by my CC carriers), 1 hacked CC (cleared through my CC carrier), and perhaps 1 un-resolved "never got the goods, never got my money back" case in over 1300 e-purchases over the past 15+ years.

The moral of the story, if any, is that most of the scams which catch us do so because WE WERE NOT BEING CAREFUL about something we do. Be CAREFUL and watchful and keep those scams down to a minimum!

Bob