You realize we could solve this by going on Scalemates and counting the numbers of Axis versus Allied kits.

Then break it down by issue date of the kits to determine the ratio of Allied to Axis at different points of time.

I mean Tamiya, Nichimo, Bandai numbers from 1977 or so...

I have a 1978 Japanese catalog but the numbers there are skewed by the number of Japanese subjects. Every company made a Yamato and Zero. I could just do the armor kits and See what I come up with.

You know all six kits on my bench are US. No less than 4 Sherman ( all with HVSS too), an M48A5 and an M1A2.

I will say the one thing that i personally like about modeling axis armor is that you have multiple variations of camoflauge to paint. It kind of makes for more creativity. With allied armor you don’t really see that, it’s more of olive drab and that’s it. Sorry just a little side rant. I noticed the comment on WW1 subjects, I’d like to say that this could maybe be attributed to the fact that video games such as Battlefied 1 have came out and now it’s peaked the interest of kids to model that subject. I will say It seems like video games are beginning to influence modeling, looking at all the paper panzers , i feel like this is attributed to games like war thunder and world of tanks. But with these games you also get to play as the unknown allied tanks and even a random Chinese tank or two as well. I think if anything there doesn’t seem to be a lot of allied armor built. Like i stated above there’s all these camo patterns but something else to note is the most popular tank to build for the allies is a Sherman. Now there’s multiple variations of the Sherman which anyone who studies and models the subject would have more then that. But the axis had everything from the panzer I to the King Tiger. I know there were other allied tanks such as Cromwell and Churchill but i just don’t see those subjects peeking the interest of allied model builders but i could be wrong. I think another thing that the axis builders got going for them is armored trains. Like come on growing up i loved tanks and trains and now i can combine that into a military train. There never really were any allied armored trains, there were Russian and polish ones but that’s another subject.

ummmmm
The number of released kits of different types may not necessarily say anything about the relative customer interest in those kits.
Assume 5 axis kits and 95 non-axis.
The axis kits sell 100000 copies each = 500000
The non-axis kits sell 10 copies each = 950
The probability of a random model in a show being
non-axis would be 950 / 500000 = 1/500 or 0.02%
These numbers are grossly exaggerated to demonstrate a point

Data from Scalemates will only show the number of options available to a modeler visiting the Mother of all LHS, the modelers paradise with one copy of each kit ever produced.
Without sales data from the manufacturers there is now way to translate numbers from Scalemates into some approximation of what kits are actually lurking out there in various stashes.

/ Robin

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I will say the one thing that i personally like about modeling axis armor is that you have multiple variations of camoflauge to paint. It kind of makes for more creativity. With allied armor you don’t really see that, it’s more of olive drab and that’s it. Sorry just a little side rant. I noticed the comment on WW1 subjects, I’d like to say that this could maybe be attributed to the fact that video games such as Battlefied 1 have came out and now it’s peaked the interest of kids to model that subject. I will say It seems like video games are beginning to influence modeling, looking at all the paper panzers , i feel like this is attributed to games like war thunder and world of tanks. But with these games you also get to play as the unknown allied tanks and even a random Chinese tank or two as well. I think if anything there doesn’t seem to be a lot of allied armor built. Like i stated above there’s all these camo patterns but something else to note is the most popular tank to build for the allies is a Sherman. Now there’s multiple variations of the Sherman which anyone who studies and models the subject would have more then that. But the axis had everything from the panzer I to the King Tiger. I know there were other allied tanks such as Cromwell and Churchill but i just don’t see those subjects peeking the interest of allied model builders but i could be wrong. I think another thing that the axis builders got going for them is armored trains. Like come on growing up i loved tanks and trains and now i can combine that into a military train. There never really were any allied armored trains, there were Russian and polish ones but that’s another subject.

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You need to open your mind and do a little looking. There were plenty of Non OD Allied schemes for most of the war and some pretty amazing ones at that (French 39-40, UK in France, NA and Italy including the first ever "Ambush Scheme long before we saw it on German Pz's, etc). British Schemes in NA ranged from very extravagant to Single shades but the variety of colours and schemes is pretty mind boggling with Browns, Purples, Slate, Black, Greens, and many other shades as disruptors. The USMC and Army in the Pacific had some amazing schemes as well. The variety of Allied Armour is similarly diverse you just have not noticed it e.g M3,M5Lt, M3 Mediums, M4 Mediums, M26 mediums, M10, M36, M18 etc etc, for the British and French it is even more diverse such as A9, A10, A13 (Four distinct types), A15 Crusader (2 distinct types and various AA etc), Cromwell, Churchills in Mk 1-V111 (Very disticnt differences between most marks) , A34 Comet, Valentines in many marks, tetrach, Locust, Matilda, etc etc etc
. As for Armoured Trains well that is not an area I really care about and they were confined in reality to Eastern Europe hence no real allied subjects although the British had them for Home defence in a limited capacity in the early 40's.
Al

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ummmmm
The number of released kits of different types may not necessarily say anything about the relative customer interest in those kits.
Assume 5 axis kits and 95 non-axis.
The axis kits sell 100000 copies each = 500000
The non-axis kits sell 10 copies each = 950
The probability of a random model in a show being
non-axis would be 950 / 500000 = 1/500 or 0.02%
These numbers are grossly exaggerated to demonstrate a point

Data from Scalemates will only show the number of options available to a modeler visiting the Mother of all LHS, the modelers paradise with one copy of each kit ever produced.
Without sales data from the manufacturers there is now way to translate numbers from Scalemates into some approximation of what kits are actually lurking out there in various stashes.

/ Robin

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Which of course is one reason that I did say "And that would certainly be one of the "right" ways to actually partially "technically" assess the original question!"....! The operative is "partially". The number of different kits (or accessory sets, or decal sets, or...) would be actual measures of the range and richness of what has been produced and become available. It says nothing about how many of each have been sold.

The "near-deal" world for answering the OP's question would be a data-base showing all of the stuff ever made, along with numbers sold per some unit-time (per year?), a clear assignment to some defined genre(s) (which would be the compared classes in an analysis - perhaps "Axis 1939-45" defined in some clear way), and some sub-class(es) of "in or to what market?" (Asia, Europe, NA, etc., maybe? To define markets, because each market may well exhibit its own trends in buying over time).

Most of these data do actually exist for a few years, albeit likely un-reachable (manufacturers probably do have records of what stuff they made and numbers SOLD (and only the SOLD really count - if the manufacturer didn't move it along, it wasn't visible to the end-buyers) each year - for at least a few years - but getting these records would, I bet, be more than very hard! ).

Of course, Robin, these data would only begin to answer the question for those who agreed with using what was sold when and where as providing adequate answers to the question. One could, of course, extract real numerical changes over time, as well as changes in proportion by class or genre over time, from these data. But one could not extract a clear, direct measure of personal "interest" - only, at best, a potential inference based on assuming that people buy what they are interested in!

If we weren't getting "academic" before... I think we can fairly claim to have now fully moved into that realm!

Cheers! Bob

When I was in retail, it usually wasn't sales that indicated a lucrative market but how many competitors there were in said market trying to all sell basically the same thing.

So if only one company makes a Cromwell there's not a.huge market or sales for Cromwells. But if every company serving the market feels a need to enter the market with a Tiger -- German sells. German dominates the market because most of the choices and demand and interest in the market is for German subjects.

Works with ties, dress shirts, answering machines and CD players, should work with model kits.

And I have a few more kits needing weathering and figures there's German, Israeli, Gulf War Sheridan, a what-if M60A4 and a Klingon battle cruiser.

When I was in retail, it usually wasn't sales that indicated a lucrative market but how many competitors there were in said market trying to all sell basically the same thing.

So if only one company makes a Cromwell there's not a.huge market or sales for Cromwells. But if every company serving the market feels a need to enter the market with a Tiger -- German sells. German dominates the market because most of the choices and demand and interest in the market is for German subjects.

Works with ties, dress shirts, answering machines and CD players, should work with model kits.

And I have a few more kits needing weathering and figures there's German, Israeli, Gulf War Sheridan, a what-if M60A4 and a Klingon battle cruiser.

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When I was in retail, it usually wasn't sales that indicated a lucrative market but how many competitors there were in said market trying to all sell basically the same thing.

So if only one company makes a Cromwell there's not a.huge market or sales for Cromwells. But if every company serving the market feels a need to enter the market with a Tiger -- German sells. German dominates the market because most of the choices and demand and interest in the market is for German subjects.

Works with ties, dress shirts, answering machines and CD players, should work with model kits.

And I have a few more kits needing weathering and figures there's German, Israeli, Gulf War Sheridan, a what-if M60A4 and a Klingon battle cruiser.

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Probably what every retailer really wants to know is HOW MANY of those "same / similar" goods are getting sold by those competitors! And it's that detail which is so hard for folks to discover.

The Ford plant made the Edsel. Glowing reports recorded that the plant had sold and shipped many 1000's of the things to dealers - a manufacturer-level SUCCESS! Of course, those cars were shipped to retailers (dealers)... who ended up having inventory which moved slower than "molasses flows in January". The count of competitor dealerships selling the same thing was high - which could suggest to each dealer that Edsels had real sales potential. After awhile... we all learned that nobody was BUYING the Edsel from ANY dealer!

So what would be a really good measure would be that "holy grail" for both manufacturers and retailers; a solid count of what the BUYERS actually took home from those retailers.

In some dreamy world, maybe a set of us armor modelers would volunteer to post or list ALL kits, parts, AM, decal-sets, etc. that we buy in each of, say, 3 sequential years. That data would give a consumer poll allowing one to analyze whether actual counts-bought x class or genre changed over time, which would yield analysis of trend and of proportionality x class or genre.

I think that my Takom T-55AMV WIP is coming back to the bench for some serious, "non-Axis-centric" love! My long-neglected StuG III E project will just have to be patient a bit longer!

This is a trend I have noticed. It appears that there are more topics of late in the forum on nonAxis vehicles. There has been more clamoring for nonAxis kits in the forum. I assume more topics means people have a wider range of kits they are working on because of a broader range of kits available from manufactures. I think we still like Axis armor but the newer kit variety has given us options we did not have before. Looking at my stash I have noticed I have only added one Axis tank in the last year and three nonAxis. If you look at the number of Axis topics on this forum page at the moment it is one by David on the transport track. There are only two on WWII subjects, the second being a Matilda.

No, Dennis, NOT important (to me) at all! But this IS INTERESTING - to ME! And perhaps to some others. Evidently, signalling your disdain for what I posted IS IMPORTANT, to YOU!

I am amused to see you say what you did, given how much energy and time YOU have previously put into this discussion!

Usually, I figure that those who post a lot in a thread are either stating that they think the discussion and subject are "important", or that they find it "interesting". The discussion and subject is EXTREMELY INTERESTING, but decidedly NOT important, to me. How about to YOU?

Cheers! Bob

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I will say the one thing that i personally like about modeling axis armor is that you have multiple variations of camoflauge to paint. It kind of makes for more creativity. With allied armor you don’t really see that, it’s more of olive drab and that’s it. Sorry just a little side rant. I noticed the comment on WW1 subjects, I’d like to say that this could maybe be attributed to the fact that video games such as Battlefied 1 have came out and now it’s peaked the interest of kids to model that subject. I will say It seems like video games are beginning to influence modeling, looking at all the paper panzers , i feel like this is attributed to games like war thunder and world of tanks. But with these games you also get to play as the unknown allied tanks and even a random Chinese tank or two as well. I think if anything there doesn’t seem to be a lot of allied armor built. Like i stated above there’s all these camo patterns but something else to note is the most popular tank to build for the allies is a Sherman. Now there’s multiple variations of the Sherman which anyone who studies and models the subject would have more then that. But the axis had everything from the panzer I to the King Tiger. I know there were other allied tanks such as Cromwell and Churchill but i just don’t see those subjects peeking the interest of allied model builders but i could be wrong. I think another thing that the axis builders got going for them is armored trains. Like come on growing up i loved tanks and trains and now i can combine that into a military train. There never really were any allied armored trains, there were Russian and polish ones but that’s another subject.

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You need to open your mind and do a little looking. There were plenty of Non OD Allied schemes for most of the war and some pretty amazing ones at that (French 39-40, UK in France, NA and Italy including the first ever "Ambush Scheme long before we saw it on German Pz's, etc). British Schemes in NA ranged from very extravagant to Single shades but the variety of colours and schemes is pretty mind boggling with Browns, Purples, Slate, Black, Greens, and many other shades as disruptors. The USMC and Army in the Pacific had some amazing schemes as well. The variety of Allied Armour is similarly diverse you just have not noticed it e.g M3,M5Lt, M3 Mediums, M4 Mediums, M26 mediums, M10, M36, M18 etc etc, for the British and French it is even more diverse such as A9, A10, A13 (Four distinct types), A15 Crusader (2 distinct types and various AA etc), Cromwell, Churchills in Mk 1-V111 (Very disticnt differences between most marks) , A34 Comet, Valentines in many marks, tetrach, Locust, Matilda, etc etc etc
. As for Armoured Trains well that is not an area I really care about and they were confined in reality to Eastern Europe hence no real allied subjects although the British had them for Home defence in a limited capacity in the early 40's.
Al

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This is a trend I have noticed. It appears that there are more topics of late in the forum on nonAxis vehicles. There has been more clamoring for nonAxis kits in the forum. I assume more topics means people have a wider range of kits they are working on because of a broader range of kits available from manufactures. I think we still like Axis armor but the newer kit variety has given us options we did not have before. Looking at my stash I have noticed I have only added one Axis tank in the last year and three nonAxis. If you look at the number of Axis topics on this forum page at the moment it is one by David on the transport track. There are only two on WWII subjects, the second being a Matilda.

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Greg is right on target with his comments. When I worked in a “full service” LHS- we dealt in all aspects of the hobby— wood ships, balsa aircraft, die cast, and all forms of plastic, “Axis” was only one very small part of what we sold. As more and more kits of all stripes became available, those newer “non-Axis” kits would walk out of the shop at an increasingly higher and higher rate. It’s not that Panzers and Messerschmitts weren’t attractive anymore, it just that there was more choice. There will always be a “niche” market of “Axis” modelers, but we are truly living in a “golden age” where demand for all kinds of models is being effectively met by all kinds of manufacturers. I think another dynamic is the “distance” and “generational gap” moving away from WWII “Axis” subjects into other genres. For instance, WWI modeling has inspired an entirely new manufacturer (WingNut Wings), which amazingly only produced expensive, excellent kits in a single, non-WWII oriented genre, and managed to almost single handedly create its own demand. Many more subjects from WWI are now appearing on the contest tables which formerly only held WWII interests. Also, where “Axis” modeling used to be “unique” due to the attractive variety of equipment, camouflage schemes and historical context, now it’s very “pervasiveness” has led to “Axis” subjects being more “run of the mill” and no longer “unique”. I’m not saying it’s “boring”, just that there are so many other subject areas Modelers can experiment with today that never existed before (in plastic anyway).
VR, Russ

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I will say the one thing that i personally like about modeling axis armor is that you have multiple variations of camoflauge to paint. It kind of makes for more creativity. With allied armor you don’t really see that, it’s more of olive drab and that’s it. Sorry just a little side rant. I noticed the comment on WW1 subjects, I’d like to say that this could maybe be attributed to the fact that video games such as Battlefied 1 have came out and now it’s peaked the interest of kids to model that subject. I will say It seems like video games are beginning to influence modeling, looking at all the paper panzers , i feel like this is attributed to games like war thunder and world of tanks. But with these games you also get to play as the unknown allied tanks and even a random Chinese tank or two as well. I think if anything there doesn’t seem to be a lot of allied armor built. Like i stated above there’s all these camo patterns but something else to note is the most popular tank to build for the allies is a Sherman. Now there’s multiple variations of the Sherman which anyone who studies and models the subject would have more then that. But the axis had everything from the panzer I to the King Tiger. I know there were other allied tanks such as Cromwell and Churchill but i just don’t see those subjects peeking the interest of allied model builders but i could be wrong. I think another thing that the axis builders got going for them is armored trains. Like come on growing up i loved tanks and trains and now i can combine that into a military train. There never really were any allied armored trains, there were Russian and polish ones but that’s another subject.

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You need to open your mind and do a little looking. There were plenty of Non OD Allied schemes for most of the war and some pretty amazing ones at that (French 39-40, UK in France, NA and Italy including the first ever "Ambush Scheme long before we saw it on German Pz's, etc). British Schemes in NA ranged from very extravagant to Single shades but the variety of colours and schemes is pretty mind boggling with Browns, Purples, Slate, Black, Greens, and many other shades as disruptors. The USMC and Army in the Pacific had some amazing schemes as well. The variety of Allied Armour is similarly diverse you just have not noticed it e.g M3,M5Lt, M3 Mediums, M4 Mediums, M26 mediums, M10, M36, M18 etc etc, for the British and French it is even more diverse such as A9, A10, A13 (Four distinct types), A15 Crusader (2 distinct types and various AA etc), Cromwell, Churchills in Mk 1-V111 (Very disticnt differences between most marks) , A34 Comet, Valentines in many marks, tetrach, Locust, Matilda, etc etc etc
. As for Armoured Trains well that is not an area I really care about and they were confined in reality to Eastern Europe hence no real allied subjects although the British had them for Home defence in a limited capacity in the early 40's.
Al

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Thank You Al, for reiterating what I was saying a few posts ago. Some people could stand to broaden their horizons. Is ACTUALLY saying this so offensive..?