Finally got the new Trumpeter T-72A. Looks good, but the turret has the anti-rad cladding, which I don't know was, or was not, on the T-72's Syria has. Google helped a little, but the plain turrets in pictures are probably T-72M types with no cladding.
So, question 1, can the kit be used as is for a Syrian T-72? If not, what needs to be corrected?
Question 2, I also plan on doing a Ural version. What on the hull would have to be changed? I know I will need a new turret.
WWP needs to put out a Syrian T-72 book so the old guy can get clued in.
Яusso-Soviэt Forum: Cold War Soviet Armor
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
For discussions related to cold war era Russo-Soviet armor.
Hosted by Jacques Duquette
Syrian T-72 questions.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 12:38 PM UTC
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 02:33 PM UTC
Randall:
Hi! OK... The anti-rad cladding went onto later-production T-72A tanks. So, if one is modeling a later-production T-72A shipped to Syria, it could potentially have the "Nadboi" mats attached around the turret top. But some sources say that export T-72A "did not have the anti-rad cladding either inside or out of the turret" - which would suggest that, IF the T-72A in Syria actually are "formal" export tanks, no Nadboi would be seen on them.
By me, the surest way to answer the question, however, is to search through images of T-72 in Syria and see if you find any with Nadboi, or conversely, any without. This may influence which Syrian tank(s) you decide to model.
The Nadboi is molded onto many of the Trumpeter T-72 and T-80 turrets, and on T's T-90 cast-turret, too. Removing it would, I think, be more work than worth it. So, if you decide on a non-Nadboi turret, I would get an AM turret, or go do some homework and see if Trumpeter has produced another T-72 kit which might make a better starting point for a non-Nadboi T-72.
Another thought occurs... Meng's T-72B1 kit has the same T-72 turret as the -A, I think... And the Meng turret actually comes with the Nadboi being applique pieces! So you can build that turret sans nad! Just a thought!
Just my thoughts and suggestion! Good Luck!
Bob
Hi! OK... The anti-rad cladding went onto later-production T-72A tanks. So, if one is modeling a later-production T-72A shipped to Syria, it could potentially have the "Nadboi" mats attached around the turret top. But some sources say that export T-72A "did not have the anti-rad cladding either inside or out of the turret" - which would suggest that, IF the T-72A in Syria actually are "formal" export tanks, no Nadboi would be seen on them.
By me, the surest way to answer the question, however, is to search through images of T-72 in Syria and see if you find any with Nadboi, or conversely, any without. This may influence which Syrian tank(s) you decide to model.
The Nadboi is molded onto many of the Trumpeter T-72 and T-80 turrets, and on T's T-90 cast-turret, too. Removing it would, I think, be more work than worth it. So, if you decide on a non-Nadboi turret, I would get an AM turret, or go do some homework and see if Trumpeter has produced another T-72 kit which might make a better starting point for a non-Nadboi T-72.
Another thought occurs... Meng's T-72B1 kit has the same T-72 turret as the -A, I think... And the Meng turret actually comes with the Nadboi being applique pieces! So you can build that turret sans nad! Just a thought!
Just my thoughts and suggestion! Good Luck!
Bob
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 08, 2019 - 04:46 PM UTC
Bob,
Thanks for the information. You have confirmed my suspicions. If only this were M4's, or PZIII's I would know, and have, everything I need! All the pictures I have found either show a bare turret, or are so covered with stuff you can't see the turret!
I have noticed that all of the models using the Trumpeter kit as a base for a Syrian T-72 used AM turrets. At least now I know why. I'll have to do some searching.
Meng is not an option. I have the B1 and the turret is the later version.
Thanks,
Randy
Thanks for the information. You have confirmed my suspicions. If only this were M4's, or PZIII's I would know, and have, everything I need! All the pictures I have found either show a bare turret, or are so covered with stuff you can't see the turret!
I have noticed that all of the models using the Trumpeter kit as a base for a Syrian T-72 used AM turrets. At least now I know why. I'll have to do some searching.
Meng is not an option. I have the B1 and the turret is the later version.
Thanks,
Randy
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 11:52 AM UTC
I think I answered my question, more or less. The following are screen captures off youtube showing Syrian T-72's.
The first is what got me thinking, because there seems to be cladding washers over the sight structure. That led me to pictures 2 and 3. All these of from 2 different tanks, as far as I could tell. Also, both have the Kontact bricks, so have been upgraded. Of interest, several other tanks with the Kontact do not have this feature, which I suspect is the cladding. The circles match up with the cladding on the Trumpeter T-72A turret. Picture 4 shows a bare turret for comparison.
I read somewhere that Syria is considered a good friend to Russia, so maybe they got a few prime T-72's along the way.
The first is what got me thinking, because there seems to be cladding washers over the sight structure. That led me to pictures 2 and 3. All these of from 2 different tanks, as far as I could tell. Also, both have the Kontact bricks, so have been upgraded. Of interest, several other tanks with the Kontact do not have this feature, which I suspect is the cladding. The circles match up with the cladding on the Trumpeter T-72A turret. Picture 4 shows a bare turret for comparison.
I read somewhere that Syria is considered a good friend to Russia, so maybe they got a few prime T-72's along the way.
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 01:29 PM UTC
The middle 2 pics show the external "Nadboi" cladding in place on the turret. From which, we should be able to safely conclude that some of the Syrian T-72 did arrive with the cladding. And so, it would seem that you are free to use the clad turret in a planned-for Syrian build - unless of course you have singled out a specific cladding-free tank to model...
Syria has very likely received 3 different sets of Russian tanks... One set will be those tanks specifically set up for export sales - these would probably be Nadboi-free, as it seems that planned-export tanks were shipped from the factory without ant-rad matting (and without some other higher-end equipment features, as well...). A second set will be some "used" tanks delivered to Syria that were stripped from Russian reserve units - perhaps as a sort of quick-sale to more rapidly beef up Assad's forces. These tanks would likely arrive with Nadboi, as removing it would be more work than worth. And there could be a third set... tanks turned over to Syrian forces from Russian units in Syria - as part of the ongoing masquerade where Russia insists that its army is NOT actually fighting in Syria...
In any case, your pics clearly show some tanks wearing the Nadboi, so it seems to me that you could work with that as a safe premise to building a Syrian tank with Nadboi...
Cheers! Bob
Syria has very likely received 3 different sets of Russian tanks... One set will be those tanks specifically set up for export sales - these would probably be Nadboi-free, as it seems that planned-export tanks were shipped from the factory without ant-rad matting (and without some other higher-end equipment features, as well...). A second set will be some "used" tanks delivered to Syria that were stripped from Russian reserve units - perhaps as a sort of quick-sale to more rapidly beef up Assad's forces. These tanks would likely arrive with Nadboi, as removing it would be more work than worth. And there could be a third set... tanks turned over to Syrian forces from Russian units in Syria - as part of the ongoing masquerade where Russia insists that its army is NOT actually fighting in Syria...
In any case, your pics clearly show some tanks wearing the Nadboi, so it seems to me that you could work with that as a safe premise to building a Syrian tank with Nadboi...
Cheers! Bob
Klaus-Adler
Campaigns Administrator
Joined: June 08, 2015
KitMaker: 1,505 posts
Armorama: 840 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 02:13 PM UTC
I'm interested in any other issues that might be involved with this new kit from trumpeter, as I to plan to make a Syrian civil war version.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 03:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The middle 2 pics show the external "Nadboi" cladding in place on the turret. From which, we should be able to safely conclude that some of the Syrian T-72 did arrive with the cladding. And so, it would seem that you are free to use the clad turret in a planned-for Syrian build - unless of course you have singled out a specific cladding-free tank to model...
Syria has very likely received 3 different sets of Russian tanks... One set will be those tanks specifically set up for export sales - these would probably be Nadboi-free, as it seems that planned-export tanks were shipped from the factory without ant-rad matting (and without some other higher-end equipment features, as well...). A second set will be some "used" tanks delivered to Syria that were stripped from Russian reserve units - perhaps as a sort of quick-sale to more rapidly beef up Assad's forces. These tanks would likely arrive with Nadboi, as removing it would be more work than worth. And there could be a third set... tanks turned over to Syrian forces from Russian units in Syria - as part of the ongoing masquerade where Russia insists that its army is NOT actually fighting in Syria...
In any case, your pics clearly show some tanks wearing the Nadboi, so it seems to me that you could work with that as a safe premise to building a Syrian tank with Nadboi...
Cheers! Bob
Bob,
I'm learning about the Syrian T-72 by watching YouTube videos. The tank I have in mind is one of the plainer early tanks used by the Tiger forces. I have a un-clad turret on order. However, I might do a tank with the Kontact bricks, so it is nice to know I won't have to spring for another turret.
There was a blog with a lot of information about Syrian armor, but it is gone. I downloaded a lot of pictures, but most are poor views. I just learned how to capture a picture off a YouTube video, so I 'll start added to the pictures list.
Tks,
Randy
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 04:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm interested in any other issues that might be involved with this new kit from trumpeter, as I to plan to make a Syrian civil war version.
Abrams Squad Bear in the Sand book has a good T-72 build. That's what got me interested.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 04:04 PM UTC
This is the tank I am looking at. Someone got this off YouTube, here for reference only. I probably won't be doing that much damage!
Klaus-Adler
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: June 08, 2015
KitMaker: 1,505 posts
Armorama: 840 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 04:37 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI'm interested in any other issues that might be involved with this new kit from trumpeter, as I to plan to make a Syrian civil war version.
Abrams Squad Bear in the Sand book has a good T-72 build. That's what got me interested.
great minds think a like, I too have that book
JSSVIII
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 10:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
There was a blog with a lot of information about Syrian armor, but it is gone. I downloaded a lot of pictures, but most are poor views. I just learned how to capture a picture off a YouTube video, so I 'll start added to the pictures list.
Tks,
Randy
I have found a ton (50 pages with hundreds of photos) on this site: "Sturgeon's House", go to the "Mechanized Warfare" page and look for "Syrian tanks at war. Some pictures and words between them." it is worth going through all of the pages, you won't be sorry.
Frenchy
Joined: December 02, 2002
KitMaker: 12,719 posts
Armorama: 12,507 posts
Posted: Friday, May 10, 2019 - 11:23 PM UTC
panzerbob01
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 04:36 AM UTC
The stuff on that link could keep even a highly-productive and prolific modeler fully-occupied for YEARS! LOTS of super-cool stuff to work on!
Maybe I'll pick up on one of these great build ideas... I'll take on one of those damaged T-72A... I think I'll concentrate on getting that right-hand fender with all the rubber bits hanging down and parts torn off done! That alone could be a year's worth of modeling for me!
There are T-72A with Nadboi, and others without. What's really cool is to see that some of the earlier tanks have actually been up-graded to T-72AV "standards" in Syria by using old Kontakt-1 ERA suites installed on earlier-model tanks - so you get a T72"AV" without the typical Nadboi on it!
I'm actually working on the T-55AV (Takom's kit) right now...
Cheers! Bob
Maybe I'll pick up on one of these great build ideas... I'll take on one of those damaged T-72A... I think I'll concentrate on getting that right-hand fender with all the rubber bits hanging down and parts torn off done! That alone could be a year's worth of modeling for me!
There are T-72A with Nadboi, and others without. What's really cool is to see that some of the earlier tanks have actually been up-graded to T-72AV "standards" in Syria by using old Kontakt-1 ERA suites installed on earlier-model tanks - so you get a T72"AV" without the typical Nadboi on it!
I'm actually working on the T-55AV (Takom's kit) right now...
Cheers! Bob
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 05:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThere was a blog with a lot of information about Syrian armor, but it is gone. I downloaded a lot of pictures, but most are poor views. I just learned how to capture a picture off a YouTube video, so I 'll start added to the pictures list.
Tks,
Randy
I have found a ton (50 pages with hundreds of photos) on this site: "Sturgeon's House", go to the "Mechanized Warfare" page and look for "Syrian tanks at war. Some pictures and words between them." it is worth going through all of the pages, you won't be sorry.
Thank you. For some reason that site sounds familiar.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 05:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them
H.P.
Thanks for the link HP.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 05:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The stuff on that link could keep even a highly-productive and prolific modeler fully-occupied for YEARS! LOTS of super-cool stuff to work on!
Maybe I'll pick up on one of these great build ideas... I'll take on one of those damaged T-72A... I think I'll concentrate on getting that right-hand fender with all the rubber bits hanging down and parts torn off done! That alone could be a year's worth of modeling for me!
There are T-72A with Nadboi, and others without. What's really cool is to see that some of the earlier tanks have actually been up-graded to T-72AV "standards" in Syria by using old Kontakt-1 ERA suites installed on earlier-model tanks - so you get a T72"AV" without the typical Nadboi on it!
I'm actually working on the T-55AV (Takom's kit) right now...
Cheers! Bob
I remember that old blog had a short segment on the reuse of the Kontact bricks in the field workshops from scrapped tanks. Maybe those are what the were talking about. Lousy memory.
JSSVIII
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 11:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
http://sturgeonshouse.ipbhost.com/topic/754-syrian-tanks-at-war-some-pictures-and-words-between-them
H.P.
Thanks for posting that link Henri-Pierre, Now that I saw how you did that Hopefully I can post it myself next time. You learn something new every day LOL!
JSSVIII
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 12:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The stuff on that link could keep even a highly-productive and prolific modeler fully-occupied for YEARS! LOTS of super-cool stuff to work on!
Yea, My "right click/save" muscle group was numb for days after I ran across that site LOL! Check out the "Ukranian armor" topic also.
m4sherman
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 11, 2019 - 05:11 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe stuff on that link could keep even a highly-productive and prolific modeler fully-occupied for YEARS! LOTS of super-cool stuff to work on!
Yea, My "right click/save" muscle group was numb for days after I ran across that site LOL! Check out the "Ukranian armor" topic also.
I'll have a look, after I get done with the Syrian section. But I really don't need any more ideas. I build slow enough as it is!
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 Armorama and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.