_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: IDF [Israeli Defense Forces]
Armor and AFVs of the IDF army from 1947-today.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Merkava IV .50cal
BentPanzer
Visit this Community
Frederiksborg, Denmark
Joined: June 21, 2019
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 04:26 PM UTC
Iím building a Merkava IV. I canít figure out how the 0.50 cal machine-gun is connected and where the wires for the machine-gun to gunner/commander seat goes. I can see, what seems to be an electric wire goes from the back at the .50 cal and ends where?

Someone has some pictures? Google canít help. Please help, thanks.
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 20, 2019 - 06:08 PM UTC
Hope these help.







errains
#045
Visit this Community
South Carolina, United States
Joined: September 23, 2005
KitMaker: 362 posts
Armorama: 350 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 12:47 AM UTC
Thanks for asking this question Carsten! I was going to be asking the same thing here soon.

Thanks Israel for the awesome photos they will be put to use here soon.

Tankrider
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 12:57 AM UTC
Agreed, great pictures of the back up, manual charging and firing cables. My question is since there are electrical solenoids mounted to allow charging and firing via an electrical circuit, where do those cables (visible below the .50 caliber MG in the bottom picture) enter the turret?

John
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 01:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

My question is since there are electrical solenoids mounted to allow charging and firing via an electrical circuit, where do those cables (visible below the .50 caliber MG in the bottom picture) enter the turret?



I need to do some digging, I do remember seeing a picture of it somewhere...

BentPanzer
Visit this Community
Frederiksborg, Denmark
Joined: June 21, 2019
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 01:54 AM UTC
Great pictures, thank you, absolut useful. But I still canít see how the thick black cable are connected to the 0.50 cal. Also missing where the cable goes inside the turret. In some pictures it seems that the cable are running in a tray, and sometimes the cable lies ďlooseĒ at the turret roof.
Thanks again.
seanmcandrews
Visit this Community
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: May 09, 2009
KitMaker: 561 posts
Armorama: 553 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 04:20 AM UTC
it looks like the cable runs down into the gap between the turret structure proper and the applique armor module and up underneath the solenoid mount before branching off to the two individual solenoids.

Sean
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 06:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

it looks like the cable runs down into the gap between the turret structure proper and the applique armor module and up underneath the solenoid mount before branching off to the two individual solenoids.



I tend to agree with you, although in the second picture it seems to 'disappear' into the storage bin just front of the TC's sight.








ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 06:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In some pictures it seems that the cable are running in a tray



I think that's what you talk about.









ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 06:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks Israel for the awesome photos they will be put to use here soon.



You're welcome Eric, nice to see yours back on the bench!
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 07:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

But I still canít see how the thick black cable are connected to the 0.50 cal.






BentPanzer
Visit this Community
Frederiksborg, Denmark
Joined: June 21, 2019
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 06:43 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

In some pictures it seems that the cable are running in a tray



I think that's what you talk about.




Exactly.
BentPanzer
Visit this Community
Frederiksborg, Denmark
Joined: June 21, 2019
KitMaker: 4 posts
Armorama: 4 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 06:43 PM UTC
Thank you, for all your time and all the pictures, very helpful.
Time for detailing, this mechanism in scale 1/35. No excuses.

Thanks again.


exgrunt
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: December 17, 2013
KitMaker: 301 posts
Armorama: 301 posts
Posted: Friday, June 21, 2019 - 11:58 PM UTC
So what's the actual purpose of the .50? Just a heavy coax weapon or is it used as a last-resort aiming device, firing tracer on the same ballistic trajectory as the main gun?
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2019 - 01:59 AM UTC
20 years ago we used to use the .50 cal for a single purpose only: simulating the main gun up to max. 1.500 m in certain drills. We always removed them before operational deployment.

These days they seem to be permanently fixed. I guess apart from using them the same way did, they're also an additional, beefier coax for engaging targets up to around 1.000 m.
Tankrider
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2019 - 06:57 AM UTC
Israel,
Thanks for the additional pictures to clarify where the electrical solenoid cables "disappear" into the turret.

I know that the US Army mounted the .50 caliber MG to give the tank crew another option beyond 7.62 and 120mm weapons to precisely engage targets with the gunner's thermal/FLIR sights and controls.

John
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 22, 2019 - 07:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know that the US Army mounted the .50 caliber MG to give the tank crew another option beyond 7.62 and 120mm weapons to precisely engage targets with the gunner's thermal/FLIR sights and controls.



Hi John,

Exactly. I think both armies came to the same conclusion due to the asymmetrical warfare they were (are) fighting.
exgrunt
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: December 17, 2013
KitMaker: 301 posts
Armorama: 301 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 23, 2019 - 12:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

20 years ago we used to use the .50 cal for a single purpose only: simulating the main gun up to max. 1.500 m in certain drills. We always removed them before operational deployment.

These days they seem to be permanently fixed. I guess apart from using them the same way did, they're also an additional, beefier coax for engaging targets up to around 1.000 m.



Strange, I've seen pics of some (not all) IDF tanks in Lebanon back in the early 80's with .50's mounted so I assumed they always had an operational role.
maximus8425
Visit this Community
England - North East, United Kingdom
Joined: May 12, 2006
KitMaker: 331 posts
Armorama: 320 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 23, 2019 - 05:43 AM UTC
I can't tell from looking at the pictures myself but would anyone like to hazzard a guess as to whether the ducting is tubular or box cross section?
JSSVIII
Visit this Community
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: March 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,169 posts
Armorama: 1,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 23, 2019 - 12:46 PM UTC
Thank you for posting those close-up photos of the .50, there seem to be 2 variants of the trigger mechanism shown, wasn't there a 3rd style also?
Tankrider
Visit this Community
Oklahoma, United States
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Monday, June 24, 2019 - 01:54 AM UTC
John,
I'm not sure if there are more variants of the remote charging and firing that the manual set up and the one that uses the solenoids to charge and fire the .50 caliber machine gun. There is sometimes a cover added to protect the solenoids but I would surmise that the mechanism underneath is the same.

My $0.02

John
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 12:24 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Strange, I've seen pics of some (not all) IDF tanks in Lebanon back in the early 80's with .50's mounted so I assumed they always had an operational role.



Most of the Merkava Mk.1s didnít seem the have them, Magachs and Shots on the other hand show a more mixed picture. Could be that regular armor units did have them while reserve formations didnít (this is the situation today; some Mk.4s in reserve donít have them).

I think the whole thing has something to do with asymmetric warfare in urban environment. Between the end of First Lebanon War (1985) and the beginning of the Second Intifada (2000) the IDF probably thought that such warfare is unlikely to happen therefore didnít bother to mount them. Just guessing here, I could be completely wrong...
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 12:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There is sometimes a cover added to protect the solenoids but I would surmise that the mechanism underneath is the same.



That would be my guess too.
ReluctantRenegade
Visit this Community
Wien, Austria
Joined: March 09, 2016
KitMaker: 2,408 posts
Armorama: 2,300 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 08:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I need to do some digging, I do remember seeing a picture of it somewhere...



That's the picture I was referring to. Didn't remember it' was a Mk.3 though...




GuyGos
Visit this Community
Netanya, Israel
Joined: April 08, 2013
KitMaker: 71 posts
Armorama: 71 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 25, 2019 - 09:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I need to do some digging, I do remember seeing a picture of it somewhere...



That's the picture I was referring to. Didn't remember it' was a Mk.3 though...






This is a Mk.2D
 _GOTOTOP