Dear all,

I'm trying to find information, drawings, anything about the major differences between the hull of these tanks. Was the shape of the lower hull altered during production? (Dimensions, basic shape, etc.)

Thank you.

The best reference books that I have seen on all aspects of the Panther is the AJ Press Tank Power 8-volume series by Waldemar Trojca. Bilingual in Polish and English.

Excellent photographs, info like you wouldn't believe and line drawings by the author

It even has drawing of the paper Panthers as well.

I believe you can still buy it online through Jadar of Poland.

I own the series along with the volume on the Jagdpanther.

Chris

No, you cannot. Early volumes are not available for many years now and even later volumes are getting hard to find...

Sorry, my apologies then.

That is where I got mine. So thanks for the update.

Thank you, but right now I can't really justify to buy (even if easy to find) books to decide the issue; thank you for your suggestion, though. I would, however, like to get an answer to the question if anyone knows it.


Can you recall seeing/reading differences between the versions? Mostly the width of the hull (the horizontal part above the tracks - did they change in width?) that interests me. The second question is if this very part had a built-in step at the engine compartment (if it ran straight from the nose to the back, or if it had a small incline built in at one part.) I am trying to figure out if one of these models are incorrect, or if both are correct and the tank went through some dramatic redesign between versions A and G.


See photo


https://i.imgur.com/zdbz7jS.jpg

If it's just about "major differences", here you go:

Fist of all, you must be aware of the chronological order of the versions, which is D, A and G (and not following the alphabet, don't ask me why here).

So we start with Ausf. D, which basically shares its hull with the later A. The changes from one version to the include the introduction of a ball mount for the hull mg on the A, as opposed to the simple letter box.

Apart from such details, THE difference between D/A and G hulls is more fundamental, as the whole geometry of the side armor was changed. With D/A, you will find that side armor on the upper part of the hull consists of two armor plates. One is sloped to 45° (?) towards the top, and at the back there is a trapezoid vertical armor plate under the sloped one to cover everything.
On the G hull, the whole upper side armor consists of just one less sloped (I believe it's at 60°) armor plate.

The G hull itself saw some more modifications, which are typically seperated in "early G" and "late G", and relate mostly to the engine deck and optics.

However, please note that the there are far more differences between the versions and the transition from one to another wasn't "clean", i.e. earlier parts were used on later hulls etc.
You get an excellent overview of all the changes here:

http://www.panther1944.de/index.php/en/sdkfz-171-pzkpfwg-panther/technik/technical-changes


Nicolas

The pic shows exactly the change in the hull geometry from A to G I mentioned in my earlier post (I was typing while you replied)

The upper hull side plates differed in shape and angle. The upper hull top plates were the same dimensionaly.

The Trojca books are best avoided. The plans are made up, and the text is just filling.
Get the Panzertracts books.

https://www.panzerwrecks.com/product-category/panzer-tracts/

Both are correct. The G version had a simplified hull design, as far as the number of plates, but a more complex construction due to the plate angles.

What Marc said.

Everyone is basically correct. The hull for the Ausf. D and Ausf. A are identical, right down to the drawing numbers. The biggest visible change between the D and A is the incorporation of the Kugelblende MG ball mount replacing the slit on the glacis plate, in December 1943.

The Ausf. G hull was a redesign based on the cancelled Panther II project. Armor thickness was changed in several areas. The engine compartment was redesigned to fix the problem causing the engine fires. Along with that, the rear deck was redesigned. The other very noticeable change was that the drivers vision port was removed from the glacis plate.

Here is a chart showing the armor differences between the two hulls.


In terms of naming convention, in 1940 or 1941, they changed the naming convention for armored vehicles. Since Daimler-Benz was the original contractor selected for designing the Panther, the first model was identified as the Ausf. D. The "D" is for Daimler-Benz. Design responsibility was then given to MAN, but the designation was not changed from Ausf. D for the first models.

Thank you guys, you have been awesome!

Actually the hull MG mount is not diagnostic between A and D. The turret features were the defining element (not even the cupola type, but the inner mantlet and, I recall, the shell). I’m on the train though, so can’t confirm the latter.

Robert, you are correct for the Ausf. D and early Ausf. A, there is no difference between the hulls. The Ausf. After Dec. '43, the new MG config, along with driver's vision port on the glacis is your give-away that you have and Ausf. A.

The Ausf. A incorporated a new turret design. The easiest way to know the difference on the D to early A is that the Ausf. D turret front plate was welded to the rest of the structure with a dove tail style. The Ausf. A turret was a squared notch style.