New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 02:16 AM UTC
Hi everyone
I plan to do a diorama for 4th Panzer Regiment in Italy Spring 1944. I have done some research on German soldiers in Italian Camo.
Below are photos I have found, looks like prisoners from Army and HG division. Although I have not found any photos showing Panzer crew wearing the Italian camo. Is it safe to assume some of them may wear the camo pant or jacket?
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 04:28 AM UTC
Your third pic shows a standard Para smock in Luftwaffe splinter cammo and fieldgray trousers.
I think you may be hard pressed to find tankers wearing Italian cammo.
J
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: February 28, 2018
KitMaker: 38 posts
Armorama: 36 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 05:32 AM UTC
As far as I am aware, only 1st and 12th SS Panzer Divisions used the Italian camo material.
Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: April 10, 2011
KitMaker: 7,941 posts
Armorama: 7,934 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 07:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
As far as I am aware, only 1st and 12th SS Panzer Divisions used the Italian camo material.
The first 2 pics shown above show the soldiers wearing Italian cammo and they are not SS troops. It did show up outside the 1SS PzKorps but not too often.
Queensland, Australia
Joined: February 10, 2012
KitMaker: 665 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 08:44 AM UTC
The Italian camo was very popular with Germans both SS and Heer, a lot of these uniforms were custom/ tailored for the Germans whilst in the Italian campaign. It would not be unreasonable to have a couple of 4th Tankers in Italian cam...I personally would lean toward a couple of officers and Senior NCO's wearing the garments if doing a dio. (dont forget these guys got more $$$$$ than the enlisted men...lol).
United Kingdom
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 09:48 AM UTC
I believe the first photo of the POW in camo trousers has a Luftwaffe eagle emblem on his short jacket, along with the guy next to him. No sleeve eagle emblem so not SS. They could be paratroopers or if they fought in Italy as I can't remember off hand, part of the Hermann Goring Division. The helmet he is holding looks like a Fallschirmjäger one.
Saitama-ken, Japan / 日本
Joined: February 12, 2016
KitMaker: 128 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 11:56 AM UTC
The guy in picture 3, in the 2-piece cam. also seems to be wearing Gebirgsjaeger boots. Offhand I don't know what; if any; Gebirgsjaeger units were in Italy. If I have time I'll go through my pix and see if I can find tank crew wearing Italian cam later; but personally I'd say just do it anyway; who cares, it's your model. It'd be pretty hard to prove that NO tanker ever wore it I'd say.
"I've..seen things..you people wouldn't believe."
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 02:49 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Your third pic shows a standard Para smock in Luftwaffe splinter cammo and fieldgray trousers.
I think you may be hard pressed to find tankers wearing Italian cammo.
J
Hi Jerry
Yup I made a mistake, 3rd photo deleted. There are lots of historical photos about 12ss in Normandy wearing Italian Camo, but have not seen photos re: 4th Pz Reg
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 02:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The Italian camo was very popular with Germans both SS and Heer, a lot of these uniforms were custom/ tailored for the Germans whilst in the Italian campaign. It would not be unreasonable to have a couple of 4th Tankers in Italian cam...I personally would lean toward a couple of officers and Senior NCO's wearing the garments if doing a dio. (dont forget these guys got more $$$$$ than the enlisted men...lol).
Good idea painting an officer or a senior NCO would be a good option.
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 02:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I believe the first photo of the POW in camo trousers has a Luftwaffe eagle emblem on his short jacket, along with the guy next to him. No sleeve eagle emblem so not SS. They could be paratroopers or if they fought in Italy as I can't remember off hand, part of the Hermann Goring Division. The helmet he is holding looks like a Fallschirmjäger one.
If you see Luftwaffe eagle emblem on chest, but not with Fallschirmjäger gear (helmet, etc) in italy. It is Hermann Goring division. There were Fallschirmjäger fighting in Italy, but they had their own standard camo issued.
New South Wales, Australia
Joined: May 15, 2018
KitMaker: 67 posts
Armorama: 65 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2019 - 02:56 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The guy in picture 3, in the 2-piece cam. also seems to be wearing Gebirgsjaeger boots. Offhand I don't know what; if any; Gebirgsjaeger units were in Italy. If I have time I'll go through my pix and see if I can find tank crew wearing Italian cam later; but personally I'd say just do it anyway; who cares, it's your model. It'd be pretty hard to prove that NO tanker ever wore it I'd say.
Yup this is what I thought originally. Italian camo was common among German troop in italy and we do have photos showing Heer prisoners wearing italian camo. So it should be reasonable for me to assume some tanks would have acquired them as well.
