Where can I find a List of Tactical Battalion Numbers on US Army Vehicles for each unit in Germany in the 1980's. For example the #'s on side of a vehicle like this

Like this 1>

Are you referring to the vehicle "USA" number (which is unique to each vehicle similar to a VIN) or are you talking about "Bumper Numbers", which indicate the unit to which the vehicle belongs with the HIGHER echelons such as ARMY, Group, Corps, Division, Brigade,and Battalion in some sort of configuration on the LEFT side as you face either the front or rear of the vehicle, and the Company and "March Sequence" Number (B-1 for example indicating the lead vehicle from Bravo Battery/Company/Troop), typically the Commander's vehicle) on the RIGHT side of the vehicle as you face either the front or rear?

Regardless, there probably isn't a "list", but there is a regulation or TB that describes how they are SUPPOSED to be determined for every unit.

And like everything else about the US Army, there's the way it's "supposed" to be done, and the way it's actually done.

The BEST way to handle your request would be to have a list of all the units in Germany that you're interested in (and that's a BUTTLOAD BTW!) and then we could tell you what the markings for that unit SHOULD be.

And it's complicated, because for example, my old unit, First Battalion, Second Field Artillery, used 1F2 with the numbers indicating battalion and "regiment" in that order with the F indicating Field Artillery. But this was PRECEDED with 8- (thus 8-1F2) with the "8" indicating 8th Division. And there is no letter indicating "Infantry Division" because it's ASSUMED to be an Infantry Division unless otherwise specifically indicated.

Note that our intermediate HQ between battalion and Division (DivArty or Division Artillery which was the equivalent to a Brigade level command) is not specified, because it's understood or implied)

A vehicle from 1st Battalion, Sixty Eighth Armor, would be shown as 8-1^68 (with the "^" actually being a triangle) with the ^ symbol understood to represent armor.

This battalion was part of 2nd Brigade, but that is NOT shown in the Bumper Number.

Another example would be 3^1^32. This would indicate the vehicle belongs to 3rd Armored Division, 1st Battalion, 32nd Armor. This time the DIVISION is given a triangle symbol to show it's an Armored Division and not the 3rd INFANTRY Division which would have had NO identifying symbol.

Again there is nothing to show which Brigade this battalion is a part of.

However vehicles that are actually IN the Brigade HQ company and not a Battalion WOULD have the Division AND Brigade indicted on the Left side.

Both of these Divisions were part of V Corps (Fifth), but neither the Corps or the next Higher Command or Seventh Army are shown. Three reasons for that. One, not enough space, two units during war can and were swapped around so the command relationship might change, and three Operational Security so the bad guys can't determine Order of Battle.

But again vehicles directly assigned to Division, Corps and Army would be marked that way as WELL as some units allocated to the Corps like engineer, artillery etc.

Confusing I know!

No The numbers on the side of the vehicle. They have a number and a Chevron pointed in the direction for ea company like this. Someone on fb said he was in the 8th ID and these were the markings on his track. (5/77 Armor was 00 for the battalion and Alpha through Delta Companies were 01, 02, 03, 04 respectively. It was late 1989 or early 1990 when we went to the 2-digit markings. The direction of the chevron determined the platoon. Left pointing was 1st, up was 2nd, right was 3rd.)

And like I said these are the numbers on the side of the tracks

OK, now since I know what you are looking for, I can provide some info for 3ID which is good up until the CFE Drawdown after OPERATION DESERT STORM and maybe a couple years after...

1st Brigade (Schweinfurt)
1 - 2-15 IN
2 - 5-15 IN
3 - 2-64 AR
4 - 3-64 AR

2nd Brigade (Kitzingen)
5 - 1-15 IN
6 - 1-69 AR
7 - 4-69 AR

3rd Brigade (Aschaffenburg)
8 - 1-7 IN
9 - 4-7 IN
0 - 4-66 AR

I served in both 2nd Brigades in Germany - 1990-1991 in Kitzingen and 1991-1993 in Erlangen, the former 2nd Brigade, 1st Armored. Once the Erlangen Brigade was transferred to 3ID and the Kitzingen Brigade was closing the numbering went like this:
5 - 2-6 IN (Reflagged to 1-30 Infantry in 1992)
6 - 2-70 AR
7 - 4-70 AR (deactivated in 1992)

The Erlangen Brigade started the deactivation in the summer of 1993 and finished in early 1994. For about 18 months there was no 2nd Brigade on the books until the 3ID colors were moved to Fort Stewart Georgia in early 1996.

HTH

John

Thanks for the Info. I was at Stewart from 93-96. I was a 13B at the time before I reclassed to 11B. In the 24th I was in 3/41 FA. When we reflagged to 3rd ID I was in 1/9 FA part of 2nd BDE. You have any pictures. and Do you happen to know the Id # for the FA and Cav units during you time in Germany

Joey,
I don't recall how 3-4 Cav was marked. I do not believe that the Artillery units had the tactical markings. I know that the Army adopted the USAREUR Marking scheme in the mid-90s and added /0-/9 marking to cover the Divisional units such as Divisional Artillery and Divisional Cavalry - 3ID's DIVCAV, 3-7 Cavalry, during OIF I was marked with /0, with HHT being /00 and the GCTs /01-/03. I don't recall how the Artillery Battalions were marked, maybe Gino, who was in 3ID's MLRS battalion in 2003 can weigh in on their particular markings.

HTH

John

Below is a copy of the 3ID standard Bn ID makings from OIF 1 (invasion of Iraq) from '03. I don't know how/if it corresponds to the EUCOM system. I commanded A Btry, 1-39 FA (MLRS), 3ID. Our vehicles had 41 on them and the appropriate slash/chevron for the platoon.



2nd PLT, D BTRY, 1-39 FA (MLRS), 3 ID M270; 44> Battalion ID #.