Some modelers have questions the accuracy of the scartchbuilt 1/16th scale M2A2. I'd like to clarify some of these issues:
I made the model in 1994, at that time the M2A2 Bradley was a new vehicle and information were not easy to obtain. I saw it the first time on CNN during the coverage of Desert Storm in 1991. I was able to locate a M2A2 at Fort Devens, Mass. and it was the only one there. I was told at that time that it was one of the new vehicles they just got. I took pictures of it, but I was ristricted to some areas of the vehicle, and I was not allowed to take pictures of the interior or some external areas that was classified at that time.
I obtained some basic drawings of the vehicle from the base library, and borrowed several tech. manuals on the M2A1 version of the Bradley. I was told by the people on the base that the M2A2 was an M2A1 with the additional armor, with interior and exterior were unchanged.




I bought the Tamiya kit to use as a visual and dimentional reference, but did not use it to copy it exactley. The TOW launcher was made using the drawings from the tech manual and not the Tamiya kit. This is one of the drawings I used to make it

I do realize know that the model have errors in it, but like I said I started looking for information right after Desert Storm, and I started building it in 1993. So I had to use the information I had at that time. I did correct some of the errors I could in 2001, and that is when I added the engine, information at that time were more available.
Recentley, I found out that the M2A2 that was at Fort Devens was a prototype and I beleive it was a field modification of a M2A1 to make lt look like an M2A2.

I would realy like to discuss this more with other modelers especialy with Vodnik since it looks like he knows a lot about the Bradley.

Best regards
T. Chouman

Some how the drawing I tried to post didn't come out. I don't know how to post pictures. to see the drawing that I was trying to refer to in my early posting, please go to "my photos" section below the post to see it.
Can some one tell me how to post pictures. I uploaded the photo on armorama, and when asked to insert URL for image in posting, I copied the URL where the image is, but it did not come up. Please help.

Sorry

Ola Talal

Here is the picture you wanted to show up in the post. You copied the Page address of that picture instead of the Picture address between the IMG brackets I will make it visible for you


When you want to post a picture in the forum you have to right-click on the picture itself then go to properties. You will get a small window then with the Properties of that picture. In the middle there is a URL when you copy this URL by clicking CTRL-C and paste it between the IMG brackets in the post with CTRL-V then it should work

Hi Talal,

Welcome to Armorama! :-)

I'm really glad you described the history of your Bradley model - it explains a lot. I will repeat what I wrote already in the other thread: I really admire your work and your skills, but I spent so much time on research for my article about correcting Tamiya kit (and building my own M3A2 Bradley model - you can find both the article and photos of my model on my web site:http://vodnik.net) not to notice inaccuracies in your model. I admit that my comments about poor research were a bit harsh, but the accuracy of your model was in a slight contrast to the text you put over photos of your Brad on your web site.

Your LAV-25 is completely different story. While I didn't start my research on this vehicle yet, as I don't plan to start my model of this vehicle any time soon, I haven't heard a bad word about accuracy of your model. I plan to use your photos as references to detail my 1/35 model!

Congratulations on having your Piranha featured on a cover of FSM - it's a pity they didn't publish more photos of it.

Best Regards,
Pawel

Thanks Faust, you are a great help.

Hi Vodnik, and thanks for the reply.
I know I should have clarified my statement on my website regarding the M2A2.
There is one error on the LAV-25 which is intentional. I was not allowed to show the real 25mm shell which is olive drab (Case) and the APFSDS shell shape is different. I don't know why they didn't let me since the information is publicly available, but I did not want to argue with the people who allowed me to use the pictures. Anyway I had to use the colsest 25mm used by the US which a round used by the Air Force.

Best

Here are the right 25mm shells:

Hi Vodnik,

Can you please tell me what are the errors you found on the M2A2 I made. I'd like to avoid making these errors again.

Thanks.

I've got an old M2A2 you are welcome to come inspect up at Devens. Bob Magina knows how to contact me.

Hooah! a 100% made Abrams?!
Meaning you had a pile of white styrene and you made an Abrams of it??!
Holy #$%^& ,my hat is off to you sir!

Hi Talal,

Yes, of course I can. For more detailed information, please read my article about accurizing Tamiya kit (http://vodnik.net/index_feat.htm). Please remember that I never saw any Bradley in the flesh, but I spent many hours analyzing hundreds of photos and I'm quite confident all the information I got is correct. But visit in Rob's motor pool will be the best way to (I hope) confirm that all I wrote is true.

Here is the list:
- the shape of the rear hull plate is not correct - you made solid “blocks” behind two storage boxes at the rear of the vehicle, while in fact behind each box should be a separate two layer armor plate (similar to those on skirts) attached at some distance to the main armor. There are also some details missing in this area of your model: some vent pipes should go behind storage boxes, etc.. You made the two ribbed reinforcements on the bottom of rear hull, on both sides of the rear ramp, symmetrical, while in reality the right one is much smaller and more flat at the back. Check this photo: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/bradrear.jpg

- steps on the bottom of some of side skirts - they look like made of metal rod in your model, while in reality they are made of exactly the same steel rope part as the “handles” attached on the middle of each skirt.

- the rectangular spacers between two layers of the armor plates that make each side skirt are located in wrong places - they should be behind bolts, and in your model there is no correlation between placement of bolts and spacers. Also brackets that attach side skirts to the side armor plates lack bolt head details in your model. See those photos: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/skirts2.jpg
http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/skirts1.jpg

- your model lacks some bolt details on side armor plates, or has just small holes instead of bolt heads in places. http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/sidearmor2.jpg

- the shape of the front of the left side armor plate is incorrect in your model http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/sidearmor.jpg
http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/tn_m3a2-05.jpg

- swim barrier on the front of your Bradley is not attached where it should be. There is also many other details missing from the front upper armor plate of your Bradley: engine cover lock, the swim barrier attachment brackets, some bolt heads, headlights cables etc. Also the shape of the armor plate is not quite correct - lacks the small triangular extension on the left side of it. See this part of my article for details: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/m2a2-p3.htm

- the left headlight guard shape is wrong in your model - you copied the Tamiya part, while in reality the left guard is significantly different from the right one. http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/headlight-2.jpg

- the drivers hatch lacks the guiding rail on the right side of it, and some other details around it http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/drvhatch2.jpg

- the exhaust box is incorrect for M2A2 vehicle - you copied M2 style part from Tamiya kit, while M2A2 part was different: http://vodnik2.republika.pl/pages/m2a2/exh-m3a2.jpg.

…. I’m sorry Talal, I just realized that it doesn’t make much sense to continue with this list, as I’m repeating what I already wrote in the article. You really should read it and you will notice that majority of Tamiya kit issues I described there, also apply to your model.

So now I will just mention two more things that are not mentioned in the article:
- the small section of armor plate, immediately under the gun barrel should move with the gun - you made it as one part with the plates to which grenade boxes are attached, but in reality there are three small plates there and center part is moveable (attached to the gun mantlet).

- the interior of TOW launcher in your model is correct only for M2 and M3 Bradleys. In M2A1, M3A1, M2A2 and M2A2 newer TOW launcher is used and its interior looks differently - the two separate rectangular missile tube “cages” inside are no longer there.

I know that some people will start to attack me now as a “nitpicker” and “rivet counter”, but I only answered your question. Judging from your beautiful LAV-25 model, your goal is ultimate accuracy and to achieve this, you should be aware of even the smallest errors in your other models.

Cheers,
Pawel

Hi Vodnik,

I would like to thank you for responding to my post, and thanks for pointing out the errors.
I have read your article and it's very informative and well done, you did your homework very well.
One error in Tamiya's kit you should add to your article is the 7.62mm ejector drum in the turret. The Tamiya kit has the cavity for it but does not have the drum or the detail, and the cavity is oversized, see pictures below.
Tamiya kit

1/16th model

Real M2A2


I don't really mind other modelers nitpick on my models, I actualy encourage that, this way I can improve on my model building.
I went over my M2A2 model and the photos I have and checked the errors you pointed out, some of them you are correct, some of them you are wrong, and some are actually there but you've probably missed or did not come out right in the pictures posted on my site. Anyway I'm not going to go into that because I don't want to stir a hornet nest here on Armorama, but if you would like to continue with this discussion in private, I'm more then happy to do that.

Keep up the good work and let me know if I can be of help to you in your research on other models.

Best regards and happy modeling
T. Chouman

T.,
AWSOME BRADLEY!!!!!!!!
Know my two cents worth, and after i give a little background, I hope my two cents is worth two cents.
As most of the guys here know, and you can see by my signature down below, I am in the Army (6 years active and 6 years so far in the Guard). My MOS is 27E - TOW/Dragon Missile Repairman. I work on any thing that is related to the TOW and Dragon missile systems, that includes the TOW on the Bradley. Know I am working, like ROB, in job that has me around military vehicles and all there manuals 24/7. I work for a CSMS at Camp Mabry, Austin, Texas. I have a Bradley in my shop that I get to use for testing purposes. Granted, its an older Bradley, but its been updated to TOW2B.
Ok, now that i got that out of the way. The TOW launcher. Yours is neither wrong nor right. It depends on the unit and the track you are representing. The launcher has nothing to do with what type of hull configuration it is in. The launcher goes with what upgrade is inside. The launcher that you have is used in TOW sytems from basic TOW on up to TOW2B. The other luancher is used on TOW2 and TOW2B.

Any questions, dont hesitate to ask. I am not claiming I am an expert, I just know the TOW system, I've been working on it for 12 years.

Talal,

You are absolutely right about this detail, but this area is almost completely hidden and hardly noticeable. I wouldn't bother correcting it, unless I build a full interior model. But I indeed should at least mention it in the article, thanks!




If you find some information in my article not correct, that I would really like to know it. I see no problem in correcting my article - I really want it to be as true as possible. Please mail me at [email protected].




Pete,

I know that your experience with Bradley is first hand, while I only know it from pictures, but I have several hundred pictures of all Bradley variants, from XM723 to M2A3 and I do not have a single photo of M2A2 or M3A2 with the TOW launcher of older style. By older style I mean the one with two separate unloading handles at the back and with the closed flat launcher face with only a vertical gap in the middle (as in Tamiya kits). ALL M2A2 and newer Bradleys I've seen use the newer launcher with single unloading handle and "open" launcher face. Acually even all M2A1 I saw already have newer launchers installed. So while I believe it is possible that some M2A2 had older launchers installed, they must have been really rare exceptions to the rule and until I see a clear photo of such vehicle (and I mean operational vehicle, not some test bed or prototype) I will insist that to make accurate M2A2 Bradley model from Tamiya kit, you should modify the launcher.

Cheers,
Pawel