Hi everyone!
I'm building a few armored kits in the near future. One of them is for the M47. I know there are two sets (one from Meng, the other Miniart) for truly modern German armor crew. Anybody know of anything for the 70's? Or maybe someone who has converted other figures to do the job?
Thanks for your thoughts!
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Bundeswehr Figures for 1970's
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 11:32 AM UTC
smydi01
Joined: October 14, 2009
KitMaker: 219 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 11:53 AM UTC
Hi
You could have a look at the Valkyrie set if you don't mind resin.
https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx/controls/controls/scale.aspx?item_no=VAM-35006
You could have a look at the Valkyrie set if you don't mind resin.
https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx/controls/controls/scale.aspx?item_no=VAM-35006
knewton
Joined: June 19, 2013
KitMaker: 1,217 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 11:56 AM UTC
https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-figures-valkyrie-miniature-vm35006-1:35-west-german-army-tank-crew-1970-1980-era-for-leopard-1-series-2-figures-and-1-bust
And, Dragon do this set, https://www.ebay.com/c/660619452. There will be others, I’m sure; but that’s a starter for 10.
And, Dragon do this set, https://www.ebay.com/c/660619452. There will be others, I’m sure; but that’s a starter for 10.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 12:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi
You could have a look at the Valkyrie set if you don't mind resin.
https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx/controls/controls/scale.aspx?item_no=VAM-35006
Thanks for the reference. Unfortunately out of stock. Will have to search elsewhere.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 12:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
https://www.bnamodelworld.com/model-figures-valkyrie-miniature-vm35006-1:35-west-german-army-tank-crew-1970-1980-era-for-leopard-1-series-2-figures-and-1-bust
And, Dragon do this set, https://www.ebay.com/c/660619452. There will be others, I’m sure; but that’s a starter for 10.
Thank you for the reference. Those Valkyrie figures seem to be out of stock everywhere.
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 05:16 PM UTC
This is probably earlier than you want. DOLP BW 102 - Panzerbesatzung um 1956/57
I think the MiniArt set could be used if you fashioned a beret on the 2 standing figures without the vests on. MiniArt Bundeswehr Tank Crew
I think the MiniArt set could be used if you fashioned a beret on the 2 standing figures without the vests on. MiniArt Bundeswehr Tank Crew
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 05:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This is probably earlier than you want. DOLP BW 102 - Panzerbesatzung um 1956/57
I think the MiniArt set could be used if you fashioned a beret on the 2 standing figures without the vests on. MiniArt Bundeswehr Tank Crew
Ooh, thank you for the suggestions! The m47 started serving Germany in 1955, so I could possibly use those first ones. Here's a photo:
I have no knowledge of the uniform, though.
The Miniart set would require me to cut off helmets and then create ears, and hair. Maybe a bit more work than I want. But thank you for suggesting it.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 07:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thank you for the reference. Those Valkyrie figures seem to be out of stock everywhere.
Not everywhere.
https://www.modellbau-koenig.de/Figuren/Figuren-1-35/Valkyrie-Miniatures/Bundeswehr-Tank-Crew-1960-70s-Era
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 08:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThank you for the reference. Those Valkyrie figures seem to be out of stock everywhere.
Not everywhere.
https://www.modellbau-koenig.de/Figuren/Figuren-1-35/Valkyrie-Miniatures/Bundeswehr-Tank-Crew-1960-70s-Era
Thank you!
gaz_ewart
Joined: November 26, 2016
KitMaker: 78 posts
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Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 09:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The Miniart set would require me to cut off helmets and then create ears, and hair. Maybe a bit more work than I want. But thank you for suggesting it.
or replace them with Hornet beret / bare heads or the like?
Though looking at the pictures maybe WW2 german heads with some slight modifications would work?
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 10:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi everyone!
I'm building a few armored kits in the near future. One of them is for the M47. I know there are two sets (one from Meng, the other Miniart) for truly modern German armor crew. Anybody know of anything for the 70's? Or maybe someone who has converted other figures to do the job?
Thanks for your thoughts!
Take note that M47 where phased out in 1965. I don´t know when Bundeswehr started issuing tankers coveralls. If you plan to build an early M47, Bundeswehr started with a camouflaged uniform. Headwear was either Feldmütze or padded tanker beret.
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Saturday, March 14, 2020 - 10:49 PM UTC
Brief history of Bundeswehr uniforms since 1955 in German.
https://www.bundesregierung.de/resource/blob/975292/729868/a567e2ec2a914b1eabb5f5010233da0a/uniformen-der-bundeswehr-download-bmvg-data.pdf?download=1
https://www.bundesregierung.de/resource/blob/975292/729868/a567e2ec2a914b1eabb5f5010233da0a/uniformen-der-bundeswehr-download-bmvg-data.pdf?download=1
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 12:15 AM UTC
Gary,
I believe the M47 was long gone by the 70s; as already pointed out the Valkyrie Bundeswehr Figures (early) might just work for the later iterations of the M47.
However, a less taxing method might be to get hold of the Miniart Winter Tank Crew figures shown here:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/miniart-35021-tank-crew--107707
Similar figures are also found here (albeit I believe out of production):
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-6112-sdkfz-250-engine-w-mechanics--141999
With an appropriate paint job, mods to the headsets, and Hornet Heads if you think they're really necessary, then you're away. The uniform will need a few additions such as pockets but this is all really quite straightforward.
The paint job might be tricky as it's basically a WW2 splinter-type. A bit of Googling will help here or you can try and track down this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wehrmacht-Camouflage-Uniforms-Derivatives-Militaria/dp/1859150055
which is going for a rather inflated price on Amazon.
The Dolp figures as suggested are in my opinion, very good; I use them but always change the heads for a Hornet Head (WW2 type) when I make Bundeswehr models of the early days.
Brian
I believe the M47 was long gone by the 70s; as already pointed out the Valkyrie Bundeswehr Figures (early) might just work for the later iterations of the M47.
However, a less taxing method might be to get hold of the Miniart Winter Tank Crew figures shown here:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/miniart-35021-tank-crew--107707
Similar figures are also found here (albeit I believe out of production):
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/dragon-6112-sdkfz-250-engine-w-mechanics--141999
With an appropriate paint job, mods to the headsets, and Hornet Heads if you think they're really necessary, then you're away. The uniform will need a few additions such as pockets but this is all really quite straightforward.
The paint job might be tricky as it's basically a WW2 splinter-type. A bit of Googling will help here or you can try and track down this book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wehrmacht-Camouflage-Uniforms-Derivatives-Militaria/dp/1859150055
which is going for a rather inflated price on Amazon.
The Dolp figures as suggested are in my opinion, very good; I use them but always change the heads for a Hornet Head (WW2 type) when I make Bundeswehr models of the early days.
Brian
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 12:49 AM UTC
Original Bundeswehr Splittertarn.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/264121726167
Various camo uniform patterns on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_clothing_camouflage_patterns
https://www.ebay.de/itm/264121726167
Various camo uniform patterns on Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_clothing_camouflage_patterns
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 01:52 AM UTC
Gary,
Hans-Hermann's picture shows what mods are required to effect a decent representation of the early Bundeswehr uniform; and even these, if you're showing the figures in hatches may not need to be done in full. Reference pictures of the real thing are invaluable of course, but I would just add that as they are often very old, the original uniforms, especially when first issued may not be quite so faded or worn as shown.
For colours, and I still major in enamels, I use Humbrol 78 Cockpit Green for a base colour then add patches - hard edged - of Humbrol 80 Grass Green and 113 Matt Rust; I recall I may have mixed the latter with some 98 Chocolate to get a slightly more brownish shade, but I haven't painted any such figures for a fair while so may have forgotten(!)
I then added the white bits using the finest paintbrush I could find. If the end result looks a bit stark you can always tone it all down with a suitable wash; I'm sure the more able figure painters within Armorama will have other views, but I managed to get the effect I was after.
My colour call-outs are of course subjective; I am well aware that other modellers will have their preferences not least in acrylics, but this might all point you in the right direction somewhere along the line.
Brian
Hans-Hermann's picture shows what mods are required to effect a decent representation of the early Bundeswehr uniform; and even these, if you're showing the figures in hatches may not need to be done in full. Reference pictures of the real thing are invaluable of course, but I would just add that as they are often very old, the original uniforms, especially when first issued may not be quite so faded or worn as shown.
For colours, and I still major in enamels, I use Humbrol 78 Cockpit Green for a base colour then add patches - hard edged - of Humbrol 80 Grass Green and 113 Matt Rust; I recall I may have mixed the latter with some 98 Chocolate to get a slightly more brownish shade, but I haven't painted any such figures for a fair while so may have forgotten(!)
I then added the white bits using the finest paintbrush I could find. If the end result looks a bit stark you can always tone it all down with a suitable wash; I'm sure the more able figure painters within Armorama will have other views, but I managed to get the effect I was after.
My colour call-outs are of course subjective; I am well aware that other modellers will have their preferences not least in acrylics, but this might all point you in the right direction somewhere along the line.
Brian
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 02:55 AM UTC
Hi Brian,
before we go too deep in this, Splittertarn had only a short span of existence. It was soon replaced by Steingrau/Oliv color after someone said that that it resemelbles a Waffen-SS poattern. Of course Waffen-SS was and is a no-go in the German military. Maybe Gary could specify what he is planing to build. (Tank, AFV, and period of use). In the 1970`s, Splittertarn was long gone out of service. I read that it had a service life of no more than 10 years.
before we go too deep in this, Splittertarn had only a short span of existence. It was soon replaced by Steingrau/Oliv color after someone said that that it resemelbles a Waffen-SS poattern. Of course Waffen-SS was and is a no-go in the German military. Maybe Gary could specify what he is planing to build. (Tank, AFV, and period of use). In the 1970`s, Splittertarn was long gone out of service. I read that it had a service life of no more than 10 years.
BootsDMS
Joined: February 08, 2012
KitMaker: 978 posts
Armorama: 965 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 03:18 AM UTC
Hans-Hermann,
No sure, I think we're all agreed that M47 was long gone by the 70s; but if Gary wishes to depict it in service he has the option, as I see it, of depicting crew in the Splittertarn, or the later figures with coveralls and berets as modelled so well by the Valkyrie sculptor.
The excellent Tankograd publication covering the M41 and M47 in early Bundeswehr service depicts the Splittertarn in use well. If Gary is planning on depicting an early M47 then I feel the Splittertarn is appropriate (that said, it appears that he will have to model the turret with many handholds as opposed to the later type). If he wishes to show the later pattern uniform (viz Valkyrie's effort), then he can use any basic M47 model be it Italeri or Takom.
I fully admit that as a keen Cold War modeller I like to ring the changes somewhat so do err on the side of modelling the "different" and the juxtaposition of a Wehrmacht-type uniform with a US tank scratches that particular itch.
I do enjoy the modelling possibilities of the early Bundeswehr and in addition to my own M47, am considering tackling the M42 and M41 with crews in Splittertarn.
Brian
No sure, I think we're all agreed that M47 was long gone by the 70s; but if Gary wishes to depict it in service he has the option, as I see it, of depicting crew in the Splittertarn, or the later figures with coveralls and berets as modelled so well by the Valkyrie sculptor.
The excellent Tankograd publication covering the M41 and M47 in early Bundeswehr service depicts the Splittertarn in use well. If Gary is planning on depicting an early M47 then I feel the Splittertarn is appropriate (that said, it appears that he will have to model the turret with many handholds as opposed to the later type). If he wishes to show the later pattern uniform (viz Valkyrie's effort), then he can use any basic M47 model be it Italeri or Takom.
I fully admit that as a keen Cold War modeller I like to ring the changes somewhat so do err on the side of modelling the "different" and the juxtaposition of a Wehrmacht-type uniform with a US tank scratches that particular itch.
I do enjoy the modelling possibilities of the early Bundeswehr and in addition to my own M47, am considering tackling the M42 and M41 with crews in Splittertarn.
Brian
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC
The late service Bundeswehr M-47s have the bow mg removed, the radio operator removed and the driver moves to their position. Also changes to the rear tail lights and additional lights/reflectors added. This may coincide with the addition of the smoke launchers and rain gutters. Some pictures show a single color overall being worn. PM me if you want to see what I'm talking about.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 15, 2020 - 05:53 PM UTC
Guys,
Thank you for all of the great info, links, and helpful tips.
For the record, I'm doing three Bundeswehr builds this year.
The M47 you already know about.
I'm also building a Takom Panzerspahwagen which I want to do in an eary version painted Gelboliv. They came out in the 70's, yes?
And thirdly is a Leopard 2A4. I'm not certain which year they came into service. Most places I look at seem to talk about the Leopard 2's coming in 1977, but I'm pretty sure the 2A4 version was later. Maybe in the 90's?
I've ordered the Dolp figures for the M47.
I've also ordered this set from Solmodel for the Leopard:
Thank you for all of the great info, links, and helpful tips.
For the record, I'm doing three Bundeswehr builds this year.
The M47 you already know about.
I'm also building a Takom Panzerspahwagen which I want to do in an eary version painted Gelboliv. They came out in the 70's, yes?
And thirdly is a Leopard 2A4. I'm not certain which year they came into service. Most places I look at seem to talk about the Leopard 2's coming in 1977, but I'm pretty sure the 2A4 version was later. Maybe in the 90's?
I've ordered the Dolp figures for the M47.
I've also ordered this set from Solmodel for the Leopard:
HermannB
Joined: October 14, 2008
KitMaker: 4,099 posts
Armorama: 4,067 posts
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2020 - 05:17 AM UTC
Spähpanzer Luchs was fielded in 1975. If you build the A1 version, you can paint it in Gelboliv RAL6041.
Leopard2 A4 was fielded in the mid-80`s. Take note that Flecktarn uniform was issued in the late 1980`s. Not sure when the Panzerfunkhaube was issued, but most tankers preferred the black beret of the Panzertruppe.
Leopard2 A4 was fielded in the mid-80`s. Take note that Flecktarn uniform was issued in the late 1980`s. Not sure when the Panzerfunkhaube was issued, but most tankers preferred the black beret of the Panzertruppe.
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
Armorama: 2,248 posts
Posted: Monday, March 16, 2020 - 05:15 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Spähpanzer Luchs was fielded in 1975. If you build the A1 version, you can paint it in Gelboliv RAL6041.
Leopard2 A4 was fielded in the mid-80`s. Take note that Flecktarn uniform was issued in the late 1980`s. Not sure when the Panzerfunkhaube was issued, but most tankers preferred the black beret of the Panzertruppe.
Than you, Sir! I will get some heads with Berets, then.
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