Because I always get the colors wrong, what color is the flak gun in the second photo panzer grey, dark yellow or something else? https://www.google.com/amp/s/tanks-encyclopedia.com/light-tank-m3a3-20mm-flak-38-flakvierling/amp/

I plan to make the hull US OD green unless that is wrong too.

TIA

Take this for what it is worth (another model builders guesses ...)




I would assume that the hull of that Stuart is camouflaged in the same colours as that British 8th Armoured Brigade Sherman (green and black?? or dark brown??).
"The British provided all the equipment needed to equip this brigade. In its inventory, there were some 56 x M3A1/A3 Stuart Light Tanks tanks, 24 x AEC Mk.II armored cars, and two M3A1 armored reconnaissance cars."

The FlaK gun is a lot darker so I would go for Panzer Grey.
"On several of these damaged tanks, the turrets were removed and Partisan engineers decided to try to mount some captured German weapons, to be used as improvised self-propelled guns with increased firepower. Two confirmed modifications are known; one armed with a German 75mm PaK 40 anti-tank gun and the second armed with the 20mm Flak 38 Flakvierling anti-aircraft gun. These modifications were quickly built and without proper testing, but even so, the 20mm Flak 38 Flakvierling version remained in service long after the war."

/ Robin

Both of the Flakvierling 38 Stuart conversions (as well as the three Pak 40 conversions) were built in the 1st Tank Brigade's Technical Workshop. Given that, both of the vehicles would have been finished in similar colors and markings.

If you look closely at the picture you are referring to (and better quality images of this same picture have been published elsewhere), you can see it has a camouflage pattern on both the gun shields and the hull, as well as the flag emblem. While the patterns are not identical, it is no doubt painted in the same colors as the vehicle in the other photo. The picture is just darker due to lighting conditions or photo reproduction.

What are the colors is, as usual, difficult to determine from B&W photos, but I suspect that both vehicles were re-painted with a dark yellow color, although the suspension could of course have been left untouched. The workshop was quite extensive and well equipped, and thus re-painting would not have been an issue for them. The camo pattern could be black, olive drab, dark green or something of a similar nature. But what is clear to me from pictures of both vehicles is that the colors used on both the hull and gun match so I doubt that the gun is in dark grey and the hull olive drab.

Thanks for the responses.
@Robin, I went OD Green as they where US made but it was my limited understanding that the Brits only repainted if mods where done otherwise they kept the original color. I figured that the Brits as a pile sitting in reserve and since they didn’t plan to use them gave them away.

@Jon, all good points and I agree on the first pic on the link. The pic Robin posted that I couldn’t, looks like are at the early stages of does this idea work and took the equipment as is with just the flag being added. I have only seen one other pic that also appears to have a similar camo that you talked about.

These are just my thoughts and I could be wrong on all accounts.



Thinking about a dio with a welder, separate colors and no flag as he just finished welding something to test the idea?

It is your model and your hobby, so you can chose to finish it anyway you would like! That is the joy of this hobby.

But there is no "early" stages of these conversions. These were damaged Stuarts that were sent to the workshop for repairs, and subsequently converted while there to the Flak and A/T vehicles. They were built in the workshop, not the field. There is at least 5 photos of the Flak conversions and about the same of the Pak40 versions, and they all exhibit similar characteristics and paint schemes (although the camouflage on the Pak40 versions is a lot less clear then it is on the Flak versions.)

The camouflage schemes are similar to those seen on Yugoslav M3A1 Scout Cars and AEC Mk.II Armoured Cars. So it's quite possible that if they weren't repainted with captured German paints, they were painted with British colors. The AEC crews were trained in Egypt and the AEC cars there were in the camouflage already, so the light color could very well be BSC No.61 Light Stone, and the darker color SCC No.14 Blue-Black or perhaps SCC No.1A Dark Brown. I don't pretend to be an expert on the complex world of British colors, but if the Stuart conversions were painted with British colors, there are a number of possibilities on what two colors were actually used based on the contrast visible in the clear photos.

It also appears that the conversions were all re-painted for the October 1945 Belgrade parade, and while still in a similar camouflage, the colors do appear darker.

Just my two sense.

Jon,

Thanks for the information. I do appreciate the help.

Have any guess on how they attached the gun to the tank? I am using the AFV Club M3A3 and Dragon flak 38 late (6547) kits. Since I have been wrong a bunch so far, thought I would ask about this also. I was thinking a circle styrene and part 67 glued on top. I do plan to have the driver and codriver hatch flip forward and I have an old Academy Honey interior I was going to use to make it look busy.

Unfortunately, there have been no clear pictures to date of how they were actually built. While there are a few closeups and also pictures from the workshops, nothing shows anything conclusive. I have both Ding-Hao kits for the Flak and Pak40 conversions and these both make reasonable assumptions on how they may have been built. Cross-braces/supports on the underside of the turret ring with the gun base attached to that. On the other hand, I built one 20 years ago using a Tamiya Stuart and Flakveirling 38 with a Kirin M3A3 hull and simply covered the turret ring with a circle of plastic, as you've suggested, detailed with bolts and glued the gun base to that.

Jon

The circle idea came from the FSM article from 4/1996 that used the Tamiya kits and Kirin resin like you mentioned. Dragon’s idea for T-34 flak was two I beams and for the Hetzer flak they built a steel stand. Ding Hao’s idea is interesting but I am not sure how they would have gotten the supports inside the hull.