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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Panther ambush camo and running gear
404NotFound
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Posted: Friday, April 10, 2020 - 09:28 AM UTC
I'd been going through various photos online and in books which illustrate Panthers in ambush camo as well as later model M.A.N. Panthers.

In very many cases, the running gear seems to be a a solid dark color.

Regarding a particular M.A.N. Panther, dark yellow seems to be sprayed over a darker base of which the wheels seem to be of a similar shade as the base.

Reading through the various orders as reported by the late Tom Jentz, I remain confused.

While many kits' artwork illustrate a variety of various colored wheels as part of the running gear, many photos seem to illustrate a consistent dark color.

An older Osprey book interprets the famous photo of the D-B Panther in ambush camo as having red primer or red-brown running gear.

Is this at all correct?

Or would olive green be more likely? Wouldn't a darker shade on the lower portions of the vehicle make sense?

Thoughts? Expert opinions?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2020 - 10:47 AM UTC
Tom Jentz's interpretation of the orders covering the last four months of 1944 are no longer considered correct. The orders indicated that vehicles were no longer to be painted completely in Dunkelgelb prior to the two camouflage colors being added. Instead, the three colors were applied in hard-edged patterns only to the areas where they would be visible. Jentz believed that some red primer was allowed to show as a possible fourth color, but that is not supported by the text.
The contrasting dots associated with the August 1944 "Ambush Scheme" aren't common on Panthers, but they continued to appear sporadically on King Tigers into 1945 (if time and paint stocks allowed).
In December, 1944, new orders were issued that Olivgrun would be applied as the overall base color, and the Dunkelgelb and Rotbraun would be applied in hard edged patterns over that. The factories had three months to comply, so some adopted this scheme, some did not. Last cammo orders issued to Panther factories list Rotbraun only as a disruptive color, but presumably, Dunkelgelb could also be applied if available. Final production MAN Panthers show a two-color scheme.
Regarding road wheels, I suggest you base your scheme on a particular photo.
404NotFound
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Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2020 - 01:33 PM UTC
Thank you very much! I had read somewhere where it was asserted that Jentz' translation had made for some misinterpretation.

In other words, the four-color scheme was incorrect.

Again though, I compare various photos to order dates and it remains a bit confusing.

The famous D-B Panther with the dark colored road wheels — what color were they?

Were they just uniformly mud-covered as H. Ackermans had asserted or was there red-brown or olive green for the running gear?

Perhaps we will never know.
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Saturday, April 11, 2020 - 07:13 PM UTC
Not sure which photo is the "famous" one, and your guess about the road wheel color is as good as mine, given that it's a monochrome photograph. If you really want to delve into this, pick up "Panther External Appearance and Design Changes," by Roddy MacDougall and Martin Block. It offers extensive research into the various Panther camouflage schemes used by the three manufacturers.

https://www.amazon.com/ABTEILUNG-502-Panther-External-Appearance/dp/B01IA98C66/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?dchild=1&keywords=Panther+External+Appearance+and+Design+Changes%2C%22+by+Roddy+MacDougall+and+Martin+Block&qid=1586675536&s=books&sr=1-1-fkmr0
bots1141
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Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 01:02 AM UTC
What were the two colors used in the two color scheme?
GeraldOwens
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Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 11:48 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What were the two colors used in the two color scheme?


From the tones in the photographs and the orders given to the factories in 1945, one assumes Olivgrun base with Rotbraun bands. However, military artist Ron Volstad assumed the bands to be Dunkelgelb, and used that in his boxtop painting for Dragon's late Panther G kit. It's a much more attractive scheme, but I don't think he was correct.
The MacDougall/Block book mentioned above shows Olivgrun with Rotbraun bands.
RLlockie
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Posted: Sunday, April 12, 2020 - 10:26 PM UTC
There are also colour photographs showing the two-colour scheme on those late Panthers to be green and dark brown.
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