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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
DML Panther with Steel Wheels
cabasner
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Joined: February 12, 2012
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2020 - 02:03 PM UTC
All,

Here are pictures of my just completed Panther. This was my first time trying the full suite of Michael Rinaldi's Hairspray/Oil Paint Rendering/Pigment method, trying my best to duplicate the fabulous work in his TankArt 1 book. It so happens that one of the tank models he works on is a Panther, though a Tamiya with upgrades in the assembly and with road wheels with tires, whereas mine is a Dragon kit, with steel wheels.

I have never seen another modeler create tanks out of plastic that look like real metal vehicles to the extent that Michael does! It will take a LOT of practice to get even close to the spectacular work that Michael does, but we all have to start somewhere. I'd taken about a year's break from tanks, and worked on aircraft. This tank had already been mostly completed, construction-wise, and just sat (with a first coat of a Tamiya mixture to create dunkelgelb), for a few years, at least, just waiting for me to decide on a final camo finish. I ended up removing the dunkelgelb paint layer, and starting the finishing process from scratch. So, here's my work. I know that this particular tank is not historically accurate, in terms of the tank number corresponding to the exhaust type, and several other details, but I really wanted to try to make this tank as close to Michael's Panther as possible.

I used a primer (Mig One-Shot), then Vallejo to simulate the red oxide base primer color, and a Tamiya mixture for the dunkelgelb, and Tamiya again for the whitewash coat. Fruil tracks got an initial Blacken-It treatment (or similar, can't recall exactly what I used, given that it was so long ago), and a variety of Abteillung oils and pigments from a variety of manufacturers, Mig, Vallejo and Wilder. I used templates to paint the turret numbers, instead of using decals.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

















PanzerKarl
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2020 - 05:55 PM UTC
Nice looking kitty,you have done a great job on them tracks
cabasner
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Posted: Sunday, April 19, 2020 - 11:26 PM UTC
Thanks, Karl, I appreciate your comment, including about the tracks. Oddly, the tracks were treated with a layer of pigment, which matched the pigments that you can see on the bottom of the rear of the tank (the last photo in the first post), and which were a dark, brownish-black. I'm kind of surprised that the tracks ended up looking as 'rusted' as they do, instead of a layered dark brown/black in appearance, which is what I had intended. Clearly, more black pigment, and a thicker layer of it, is necessary! I have to say, though, that they look pretty good, and now I've learned that a coat of the pigments that I used might be something to consider for future tracks, even if not in a winter-type setting which is what they are supposed to represent on this particular model!
PanzerKarl
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 12:35 AM UTC
No Curt I really like the way the tracks have different colour tones,not many modelers can get tracks right but you have just about nailed it.

Look forward to seeing more of your work.
cabasner
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 12:44 AM UTC
Thanks, Karl...you are too kind!
Petro
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 03:19 AM UTC
You put so e serious effort into that build sir.
My biggest gripe would be the exhaust rust. It is heavy for what your are trying to accomplish in my opinion.
I have not seen the model you have used for your basis and i am definitely as good as a modeler as Rinaldi, but I would think a good rusty base color with chipping fluid would give the finish you were trying for the exhaust, with additional layering after.


obg153
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 04:14 AM UTC
Overall, I think it's a really fine job! As Karl mentioned, the tracks & roadwheels are exceptional. But I also agree with Marc that the exhaust stacks look a bit odd, though I'm not sure how you could fix them. Still, it's a great looking Panther!
cabasner
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You put so e serious effort into that build sir.
My biggest gripe would be the exhaust rust. It is heavy for what your are trying to accomplish in my opinion.
I have not seen the model you have used for your basis and i am definitely as good as a modeler as Rinaldi, but I would think a good rusty base color with chipping fluid would give the finish you were trying for the exhaust, with additional layering after.

Overall, I think it's a really fine job! As Karl mentioned, the tracks & roadwheels are exceptional. But I also agree with Marc that the exhaust stacks look a bit odd, though I'm not sure how you could fix them. Still, it's a great looking Panther!



Jack and Marc,

Thanks very much for your kind words, and for your comments on things I need to work on. Frankly, like both of you, I was not thrilled with the rusted exhaust canisters. I always seem to think that doing those fully rusted items is easy to do...and it never, ever is! I'll ponder how to fix this kind of detail going forward.......no question that fixing is needed to make a really good tank!
RLlockie
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 06:05 AM UTC
You might consider removing that sliding shutter from the right radiator grille as that was only fitted when the taller fan housing on the left was installed.
cabasner
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 06:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You might consider removing that sliding shutter from the right radiator grille as that was only fitted when the taller fan housing on the left was installed.



Thank you, sir. That should be an easy mod. I'll look into that this evening.
Johnnych01
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 06:52 AM UTC
Curt, to begin with, after being away from modelling you have started with a great kit and it looks very good overall, so well done and you should take a pat on the back for your efforts.
I am in no way an expert modeller, but I like to think any points given are taken in the good way they were sent.

The comments I have read all seem fair about little things that could be adjusted etc.
I would say with the tracks they are indeed looking good, more so the darker iron / metal coloured weathered areas, there does seem to be a lot of what appears to be camo over spray on the track surfaces, if this was meant to be like that I would say it wouldn't be there in real life. After 20 years on tracks you just don't get it like that to be honest, tracks discolour and start to rust out real quick.
The exhaust is an easy fix so I wouldn't worry to much, maybe a little bit of soot deposit on the outlet on the tops ?

The tow ropes could do with a tweak. On the loop ends on the ropes on the rear decks they would never have those sharp angles, tow ropes are unbelievably taught and even if they were tied/ secured super tight, that almost right angle would be impossible, it would always try and spring back to true. Best way for them is either in the shackles, secured to the anchor points, or secured a bit further back and left hanging. That's just from experience of the real things, and I think things like that just add a bit more realism to a finished model when they are put on in a realistic way.

Again, it's great model and you have done a cracking job, well done and keep up the great work....

John
cabasner
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 11:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Curt, to begin with, after being away from modelling you have started with a great kit and it looks very good overall, so well done and you should take a pat on the back for your efforts.
I am in no way an expert modeller, but I like to think any points given are taken in the good way they were sent.

The comments I have read all seem fair about little things that could be adjusted etc.
I would say with the tracks they are indeed looking good, more so the darker iron / metal coloured weathered areas, there does seem to be a lot of what appears to be camo over spray on the track surfaces, if this was meant to be like that I would say it wouldn't be there in real life. After 20 years on tracks you just don't get it like that to be honest, tracks discolour and start to rust out real quick.
The exhaust is an easy fix so I wouldn't worry to much, maybe a little bit of soot deposit on the outlet on the tops ?

The tow ropes could do with a tweak. On the loop ends on the ropes on the rear decks they would never have those sharp angles, tow ropes are unbelievably taught and even if they were tied/ secured super tight, that almost right angle would be impossible, it would always try and spring back to true. Best way for them is either in the shackles, secured to the anchor points, or secured a bit further back and left hanging. That's just from experience of the real things, and I think things like that just add a bit more realism to a finished model when they are put on in a realistic way.

Again, it's great model and you have done a cracking job, well done and keep up the great work....

John



Hi John,

Thanks for your comments. Regarding the tracks, there was no overspray, intended or otherwise. In real life (the model tracks) don't look quite as they do in the photos, and are darker than they show in the photos.

Regarding the tow ropes, the Dragon instructions are at fault to some degree in that they sort of show them the way I had them sitting. However, I also understand your points exactly. So, what I did was to pull the rearward ends off the top of the hull, and let them sit running off the rear hull, with no hard 'kink' as you thought so unrealistic. I don't know if any tank crew would ever let those tow cable ends sitting 'flung' off the edge of the hull, but it sure looks better than the angle I had them bent previously.

I do appreciate the voice of experience helping me make my tank look a bit more realistic.

I think my next tank project is a 2003 M1A1 Abrams from the Baghdad Airport 'Thunder Run'. I built 'Answer To This', with mine plow, for the Ft. Stewart, GA training facility Thunder Run exhibit (and 'Columbia 2', plus a Bradley), but that was several years back, and I posted a feature here: https://armorama.kitmaker.net/features/6933
I was pretty proud of it, but I want to duplicate the build for my own collection, and I know that my skills have improved a great deal, not to mention now using the Rinaldi methods which should make the forthcoming version of 'Answer To This' significantly better than my first attempt!
Johnnych01
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 05:36 PM UTC
Curt, just a note on the link I followed to your Thunder Run M1A1, ....... that is a brilliant representation of a live wagon. Any crew member who served in it must of been over the moon to see it brought back to live. There is some superb attention to detail in the finish.
A job well done. And it will be great to see you do another one ...
cabasner
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Posted: Monday, April 20, 2020 - 10:53 PM UTC
John,

You are too kind...but many thanks. That build, despite being marginal in the painting and weathering, did have a lot of tiny details added to make it look like that specific tank looked on the day of the Thunder Run!
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