I put the last photo there in case anyone needs the turret that came with the kit, just PM me on that.
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Help identify British armor accessories
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 04:24 AM UTC
I bought a Black Dog resin storage set for the Cromwell. There were no literature provided on what each piece was or what color it was. Can you help identify what the pieces are and what color they were?
I put the last photo there in case anyone needs the turret that came with the kit, just PM me on that.
I put the last photo there in case anyone needs the turret that came with the kit, just PM me on that.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 05:13 AM UTC
First pic shows what looks like four jerricans (two US, two British or German) without handles next to what could be a Sherman bustle bin on the top row. Also seen one on an M3A1 light tank in 21AG.
Middle row is two 105mm boxes although I’ve never seen them in WW2 as all the WW2 105mm boxes appear to be wood.
Bottom row is a box for 120mm L11 rounds (again, never seen one before Chieftain), with what I think is a P63 (designation may be wrong but used for 25pdr shells) anD a couple whose WW2 designation escapes me but which are now L1A1.
Can’t ID the boxes under the tarp in the later pics as only the ends are visible. I think the shape of the handles should be squarer though.
Middle row is two 105mm boxes although I’ve never seen them in WW2 as all the WW2 105mm boxes appear to be wood.
Bottom row is a box for 120mm L11 rounds (again, never seen one before Chieftain), with what I think is a P63 (designation may be wrong but used for 25pdr shells) anD a couple whose WW2 designation escapes me but which are now L1A1.
Can’t ID the boxes under the tarp in the later pics as only the ends are visible. I think the shape of the handles should be squarer though.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 05:19 AM UTC
The boxes underneath the tarp could be for Hawkins mines. I'm only familiar with them because I've scratch built them in 1:1 scale and recall seeing the boxes. The ones with the square ends, not the rectangular ones.
Edit: Nope. Blowing them up on the computer (was on phone earlier) and looking at them with my Optivisor they now appear to be wood. Or else they're really badly done metal ones, but judging the quality of the other "metal" ones that's entirely possible as well.
Edit: Nope. Blowing them up on the computer (was on phone earlier) and looking at them with my Optivisor they now appear to be wood. Or else they're really badly done metal ones, but judging the quality of the other "metal" ones that's entirely possible as well.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 05:46 AM UTC
I’m pretty sure they are supposed to be metal, based on the recessed ends which are a feature of pressed steel boxes but not the wooden British ones I’ve seen. The wood ones tend to have vertical battens and rope handles rather than metal rod ones.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 05:53 AM UTC
Then these are about as poor an offering as I've come to expect from this company. I'll go back to thinking they're Hawkins mines again.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 05:54 AM UTC
I think the ones in the lower right hand corner in the first photo are metal mortar round or smoke projector cases, but I’d need a better look. I’ve seen them in a photo from an unusual source —“Classy Peg” a Sherman from the US 716th Tk Bn in the Philippines! I’ve attached a link to the photo, but I have a book by Osprey about Sherman vs Japanese tanks in the Philippines with a caption stating this particular Sherman had “procured” such a case from a Commonwealth source, and attached it under the cargo rack! I’ve actually been looking for cases like that to do the same, as I’ve been building this particular tank (for some time now) from the 716th. Here’s the photo:
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-78-0-15113200-1395596074.jpg
I’ll have to check the reference again, as I think it references exactly what the case is for, but I’ll need som time to retrieve it from my library (short for saying I don’t exactly know where the book is in my house right now— but it’s here someplace!)
VR, Russ
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads/monthly_03_2014/post-78-0-15113200-1395596074.jpg
I’ll have to check the reference again, as I think it references exactly what the case is for, but I’ll need som time to retrieve it from my library (short for saying I don’t exactly know where the book is in my house right now— but it’s here someplace!)
VR, Russ
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 06:23 AM UTC
The ones on the rear of that tank are B192s, used for 2” mortar bombs. They seem to have been in US supply chains for the ordnance used on the turret bomb thrower, which is presumably why they occasionally show up (unlike just about all other British metal boxes) on US wagons.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 06:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The ones on the rear of that tank are B192s, used for 2” mortar bombs. They seem to have been in US supply chains for the ordnance used on the turret bomb thrower, which is presumably why they occasionally show up (unlike just about all other British metal boxes) on US wagons.
Yes, you are correct, as I just (in the last five minutes) managed to locate my book. It is interesting these are in the US system. Perhaps they were produced in the US for GB as well? Are these the same boxes in the Black Dog set that Greg has, and if not, does anyone make them? Is there a color reference that would help both Greg and I out? I guess I may have to scratch build mine, but I was looking for another way out. Sorry to “hijack” your thread a bit Greg.
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 06:56 AM UTC
I think I answered my own question above. The BD boxes don’t have the same pressing patterns as the 2” bomb thrower boxes in my photo. But, Greg, if you google B 192 2” Bomb Thrower you’ll come up with some images which may help you with color. I too am a little surprised by the quality of these BD boxes. I guess it’s hard to tool those machine pressed metal boxes with those indentations in short run resin.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 07:51 AM UTC
Panzer Art makes B192s which look nice on the website but I’ve not yet acquired any to check the dims against mine.
The pressed steel ones were painted ‘service colour’ (dark brown) or dark green, probably SCC15. Not sure if the US made them and if they did, why they would go to the trouble of copying the British box design when all other boxes larger than .50” were wood as I recall. I therefore suspect that they came via British or Commonwealth channels (e.g. Canada or Australia).
The pressed steel ones were painted ‘service colour’ (dark brown) or dark green, probably SCC15. Not sure if the US made them and if they did, why they would go to the trouble of copying the British box design when all other boxes larger than .50” were wood as I recall. I therefore suspect that they came via British or Commonwealth channels (e.g. Canada or Australia).
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 08:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The pressed steel ones were painted ‘service colour’ (dark brown)...
Okay, this whole conversation is getting too weird even for me. And that's saying something.
As soon as I read that I thought, hey, I've got three boxes next to my shed that are service brown:
What did they have in them? As far as these three goes it was 81 mm mortar rounds with fuzes:
I used some of the packing foam for projects. I like to recylcle EVERYTHING. Used some of it for pads on my homemade arm wrestling table.
Yeah, dude. All well and good, but why are you saving them now? As Brad Pitt famously once asked: "What's in the box?"
Well, apparently Bradley parts. Not the real ones. I keep thjos in my workshop. Just the left over plastic ones:
The interior of the lid shows what color you can use to replicate a new one. I know Tamiya does that shade in acrylic.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 08:46 AM UTC
Robert, you keep your model sprues out in the yard next to your shed in tin boxes? Now that is weird. 
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 08:49 AM UTC
They're shaded. I just spilled them onto the grass to open them. Plus, as you can see, they're protected by my sign. The real parts need to stay in a more protected environment.
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 08:56 AM UTC
On another note, along the same lines, I’ve found a reference for the Sherman M4A3 for the 2” Smoke Mortar which was fitted to the inside of the turret roof, firing through a small hole to the right of the gunners position. I think that may be the same projector used in the Churchill Mk VII turret. Could be it’s a “combined” program from WWII? Anyway, it looks like the box on the rear of the tank in my linked photo above might be painted in a different shade than the M4A3– perhaps the military brown color Robert has provided photos for, or close to it. I’ve seen similar modern British Army boxes painted in that shade too. But I think those are US 81mm round boxes in Robert’s photo aren’t they?
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 09:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
They're shaded. I just spilled them onto the grass to open them. Plus, as you can see, they're protected by my sign. The real parts need to stay in a more protected environment.
Are you sure they’re not out there hiding from a significant other? I’ve seen some pretty creative hiding places for models. But that one would be a first!
VR, Russ
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 09:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I’ve seen similar modern British Army boxes painted in that shade too. But I think those are US 81mm round boxes in Robert’s photo aren’t they?
VR, Russ
They're either US or Canadian. I think British rounds are slightly different. US 60 mm mortars come in green boxes. This one happened to be close by. I wouldn't speculate on what's inside.
Edit: Apparently they ARE US. They look exactly like the ones in the Trumpeter Modern U.S. Marine M252 Team set. (81 mm Mortar)
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 09:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThey're shaded. I just spilled them onto the grass to open them. Plus, as you can see, they're protected by my sign. The real parts need to stay in a more protected environment.
Are you sure they’re not out there hiding from a significant other? I’ve seen some pretty creative hiding places for models. But that one would be a first!
VR, Russ
Indeed VERY off topic, but what the hell - the OP knows what shade of paint to use now - I checked. Tamiya Roof Brown.
I don't need to hide stuff from my wife. Right about now we can be totally self sufficient for months. We even have a cache of the really good masks everyone is clamoring for. It's not hoarding if you thought about it years in advance. I always told her it wouldn't be real zombies. It would be a flu like in The Stand.
From a post several years back. No wasted space under my work bench:
Kevlar06
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 11:11 AM UTC
Robert, yes, I have a small cache of “survival” items myself. It just struck me funny that you’d have Model sprues in the backyard. My local modeling group, the NWSM, just ran a thread about “hiding model stashes from significant others”. Your’s would’ve been a first though, if that was the case! As for color, I agree, Tamiya Roof Brown is very close I think for WWII British ammo cases and for some US gear (apparently). I just went out and looked in my stash of paint and compared it. It could also be something I’ve seen recently as “chocolate brown“, or WWI RAF green/chocolate brown, AKA PC10 or PC12, the exact color makeup and appearance of that is a bit controversial—green and yellow ochre mixed with lamp black.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 886 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 11:37 AM UTC
What number is Tamiya Roof Brown, it don’t see one in the catalog and google points to Testors for a Roof Brown color? Tamiya does have a red brown, has that been relabeled?
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 03, 2020 - 03:24 PM UTC
You peoples are amazing! thank you. There are 4 jerry cans in a rack and a bin for the turret on the top row. The other metal boxes might not have been WWII boxes but from a later date. However, the metal boxes should be Tamiya Roof Brown (service brown). The jerry cans I was hoping would have turned out better. I think the handles are the spike-like items to the left of the lower row of boxes. I do not see how they would attach to the cans and still look good. I could just use the large tarp and boxes underneath but they would negate having to change the rear deck to the "D" deck in the first place. I have a feeling I should just get some jerry cans and make the rack from some scrap plastic for a more realistic looking set up and use a few rolled up tarps. If you have better advice please chime in, all comments are appreciated.
Robert, I love the sign. I should post one like it by my driveway where the solicitors walk up each week to knock on my door.
Robert, I love the sign. I should post one like it by my driveway where the solicitors walk up each week to knock on my door.
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Monday, May 04, 2020 - 01:50 AM UTC
Those look exactly like British boxes but then I think the US adopted the British 81mm a while ago, so not surprising. There is another design of 81mm box with a pressing on the long side that resembles an E lying on its left side but with the vertical arms quite wide. Also post-war as far as I am aware, regardless of the number I see on models....
The colour of yours is (unsurprisingly) identical to those in my garage which have not been repainted.
The colour of yours is (unsurprisingly) identical to those in my garage which have not been repainted.
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