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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
LRAC 73mm (French Anti Tank Rocket Launcher)
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 01:53 AM UTC
I plan on modelling the Hobby Boss EBR (modified to a 75mm gun version) and wish to depict it with an Infantry Anti Tank section doubling past, all on exercise in Germany.

I will adapt the ancient Heller figures from their Mission d'Assault set to show a soldier carrying the LRAC; that way I can also use the weapon from a Heller accessories kit.

However, information seems to be scant. Google merely offers (or the bit that I located) that the weapons system was developed in the 50s and taken into service presumably for that decade; however, the same source reports that it was replaced in the French Army by the 3'5" Rocket Launcher, but not when.

If I set my model in say, around 1960, does anyone know what Anti Tank weapon was used within the Infantry at that time? or, if I insist on using the LRAC what timescale must I adapt to?

Lastly, is there a 3.5" rocket Launcher available in 1:35? (admittedly it shouldn't be that hard a project to scratch).

Brian
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 01:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I plan on modelling the Hobby Boss EBR (modified to a 75mm gun version) and wish to depict it with an Infantry Anti Tank section doubling past, all on exercise in Germany.

I will adapt the ancient Heller figures from their Mission d'Assault set to show a soldier carrying the LRAC; that way I can also use the weapon from a Heller accessories kit.

However, information seems to be scant. Google merely offers (or the bit that I located) that the weapons system was developed in the 50s and taken into service presumably for that decade; however, the same source reports that it was replaced in the French Army by the 3'5" Rocket Launcher, but not when.

If I set my model in say, around 1960, does anyone know what Anti Tank weapon was used within the Infantry at that time? or, if I insist on using the LRAC what timescale must I adapt to?

Lastly, is there a 3.5" rocket Launcher available in 1:35? (admittedly it shouldn't be that hard a project to scratch).

Brian



Sorry Chaps, put this in the wrong bit - can anyone help/tell me how to move it?
RobinNilsson
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 02:45 AM UTC
Needs special access rights to move a thread so the only way for you to do it is to ask an admin.
I chose Armor/AFV as the forum most likely to get you an answer. Figures and Dioramas are more about those aspects, not so much the technology and usage of weapons.
Cheers / Robin
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 02:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Needs special access rights to move a thread so the only way for you to do it is to ask an admin.
I chose Armor/AFV as the forum most likely to get you an answer. Figures and Dioramas are more about those aspects, not so much the technology and usage of weapons.
Cheers / Robin



Many thanks Robin, as always; my attention to detail seems to be diminishing with time(!)

Brian
Removed by original poster on 06/26/20 - 16:44:51 (GMT).
HermannB
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 04:49 AM UTC
The weapons TM can be helpful....
https://www.amazon.de/Lance-roquette-antichar-73-mod%C3%A8le-1950/dp/B0088H07XW
kefffy
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 05:13 AM UTC
Didnt heller do a kit with the LRAC in, two men team, about 1970s.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 05:50 AM UTC
Some reading :

https://www.monsieur-legionnaire.org/pdf/LRAC-73-mm-Mle-50.pdf

http://archive.vn/6vdwd

According to the texts here and here the LRAC de 73mm Mle 1950 appeared in the mid-50's and it was replaced by the LRAC de 89 mm F1 in the mid-70's...


H.P.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 06:01 AM UTC



Well it helps with the timeline - at least it proves it was in service in 1955.

Many thanks.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 06:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Didnt heller do a kit with the LRAC in, two men team, about 1970s.



Keith,

Yes they did; I plan on using a sister kit of a 3 man Infantry team but will modify the figures to depict a LRAC armed crew doubling past - or at least that's the plan! The LRAC was also included in a separate accessories set which for its time, in fact, I reckon even today withstands no small scrutiny: small arms with separate telescoped butts (MAT 49), entrenching tools, water bottles and all sorts of stuff.

I have to admit to a soft spot for Heller; though much reviled a lot of their stuff was streets ahead of their time; their figures aren't that bad, and as I have them in my stash (as well as being the only game in town - for 50s/60s/70s) - with a bit of TLC can be quite useful.
Frenchy
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 06:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well it helps with the timeline - at least it proves it was in service in 1955.



One of the manuals used to write this article https://www.monsieur-legionnaire.org/pdf/LRAC-73-mm-Mle-50.pdf is dated March 1952, another one has been published in 1976...

H.P.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 06:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Some reading :

https://www.monsieur-legionnaire.org/pdf/LRAC-73-mm-Mle-50.pdf

http://archive.vn/6vdwd

According to the texts here and here the LRAC de 73mm Mle 1950 appeared in the mid-50's and it was replaced by the LRAC de 89 mm F1 in the mid-70's...


H.P.



Henri-Pierre,

That would appear to be the clincher - in other words until MILAN came in - then I feel I can depict the use of the LRAC almost as I see fit (I hope!)

Thank you so much - once more(!)

Brian
bison126
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Posted: Friday, June 26, 2020 - 11:22 PM UTC
The LRAC 73 was still in use for training purpose in the late 80s. The stock of rockets was so huge that the AT gunners fired some 73mm rockets before shifting to the new LRAC 89.

Olivier
BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 01:40 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The LRAC 73 was still in use for training purpose in the late 80s. The stock of rockets was so huge that the AT gunners fired some 73mm rockets before shifting to the new LRAC 89.

Olivier



Thanks Olivier,

That's very helpful and gives me lots of scope; I plan on using your article (from your website) on how to modify the Hobby Boss kit of the EBR although I haven't the Azimut conversion.

Brian
bison126
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 07:09 AM UTC
Glad to help. The most useful parts in the Azimut kit were the muzzle brake which is hard to scratch build and the Reibel MG ring mount even if it was far from perfect.
Enjoy your conversion.

Olivier
BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 08:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Glad to help. The most useful parts in the Azimut kit were the muzzle brake which is hard to scratch build and the Reibel MG ring mount even if it was far from perfect.
Enjoy your conversion.

Olivier



Olivier,

Apologies for the Mission Creep in my questions, but if the LRAC was now in service far later than I imagined, could I use it with the EBR as it is from Hobby Boss and not do the conversion; in other words, if say I now depict the models in around the late 60s, would the EBR have been up-gunned to the 90mm version? I still wish to show a model from the French forces in Germany.

Can you help?

Brian
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 09:02 AM UTC
I know I should let Olivier answer, but AFAIK the 90mm version appeared in 1964 (just like me ).

H.P.
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 09:55 AM UTC
Brian,

I found a graphic at Battle Order that shows the LRAC 50 is Cold War service.

https://www.battleorder.org/french-graphics

Hope it helps. Have you checked out the Hornet heads with the M51 helmets?
The Academy Foreign Legion figures come with some useful weapons: MAT 49 & MAS49/56 rifle

I too have a soft spot for Heller kits. Currently working on the Heller F3 155mm SP gun.

Tom
BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I know I should let Olivier answer, but AFAIK the 90mm version appeared in 1964 (just like me ).

H.P.



Henri-Pierre,

Thanks; I too gleaned that from the excellent Chars-Français website, but I wonder if the units in Germany took priority with the (then) new 90mm (not least due to the threat ie Sov/WP forces), or they had to soldier on with the 75mm version. Armies aren't always logical, as I well know(!)

A Tankograd book re an exercise in Germany in 1974 claims that a vehicle shown is the 75mm equipped version, though of course they may have misidentified it; book in question is their Special No 5028 "Panzerkampf im Kalten Krieg" pages 38/39 - which gave me the idea in the first place.

64 eh? Get some time in youngster - I'm afraid I'm from a decade earlier(!)

Thanks for your help.

Brian
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 12:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,

I found a graphic at Battle Order that shows the LRAC 50 is Cold War service.

https://www.battleorder.org/french-graphics

Hope it helps. Have you checked out the Hornet heads with the M51 helmets?
The Academy Foreign Legion figures come with some useful weapons: MAT 49 & MAS49/56 rifle

I too have a soft spot for Heller kits. Currently working on the Heller F3 155mm SP gun.

Tom



Tom,

Many thanks; I'm aware that it's a Cold War weapon but was concerned as to its service dates, which I think I've more or less got now.

I'm a great fan of Hornet Heads as they practically paint themselves and can lift a figure or diorama, even with my meagre painting skills. However, I think in this case the M51 helmets are just a little undersized, so I'll probably stick with the Heller originals. Once I've scrimmed them up I should still have an acceptable effect.

I'd forgotten the Academy set so thanks for that. That said, I'll probably go with the venerable Heller Weapons & Equipment set No 132 which has an excellent selection of weapons such as those you mention as well as the LRAC which gave me the idea in the first place. It also has a quite good AA-52, entrenching tools and waterbottles, as well as personal equipment for French, German and US of WW2. I feel the detail is still quite good for such an old set. We'll see if this all comes off.

Although some of the subjects Heller moulded back in the day have now been replaced with if you like, more acceptable versions, I still enjoy getting the best from them; besides, I have them in my stash so why not?

Thanks for your input - all very helpful.

Brian
bison126
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 09:50 PM UTC
The EBR was in use in the reconnaissance regiments at Corps level one of which was permanently stationed in Germany (Baden-Baden).
I can't remember the unit number though.
The EBR was only replaced by the AMX 10 RC later than the timeframe you want todepict your model. So I think you can correctly make a EBR 90 with some conscripts with a LRAC 73 in Germany.

Take not that the HB kit is not correct even out of the box. From memory you'll have to correct the position of the large light cluster (move from front right fender to rear left one), remove the right side engine stop handle and modify the temperature exchanger over the fenders (the kind of waffle like metal sheets over the fenders behind the turret well).

The exchangers do not extend to the rear of the vehicle unlike on the HB part. You must cut some mm so the whole thing has a single edge and add a rubber seal.

Olivier
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 10:03 PM UTC

Quoted Text

The EBR was in use in the reconnaissance regiments at Corps level one of which was permanently stationed in Germany (Baden-Baden).
I can't remember the unit number though.
The EBR was only replaced by the AMX 10 RC later than the timeframe you want todepict your model. So I think you can correctly make a EBR 90 with some conscripts with a LRAC 73 in Germany.

Take not that the HB kit is not correct even out of the box. From memory you'll have to correct the position of the large light cluster (move from front right fender to rear left one), remove the right side engine stop handle and modify the temperature exchanger over the fenders (the kind of waffle like metal sheets over the fenders behind the turret well).

The exchangers do not extend to the rear of the vehicle unlike on the HB part. You must cut some mm so the whole thing has a single edge and add a rubber seal.

Olivier



Olivier,

Thank you so much - that information is priceless (and apologies for the Mission Creep).

Thanks again,

Brian
Frenchy
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 10:18 PM UTC
This one belonged to the 1er Régiment de Spahis in Speyer (1978) :


Full size

Many other period pics from the same unit in Speyer (1964-1985) here :

http://copainsdavant.linternaute.com/e/1-regiment-de-spahis-250375

Just click on "plus" to get more pics

H.P.
BootsDMS
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Posted: Saturday, June 27, 2020 - 10:25 PM UTC

Quoted Text

This one belonged to the 1er Régiment de Spahis in Speyer (1978) :


Full size

H.P.



Well that nicely confirms the unit shown in the Tankograd book I mentioned - which describes a 1974 exercise.

This is such a different-looking vehicle, I'm not sure why I haven't made one before!

Thanks Henri-Pierre, and of course, to all who have helped me in this.

Brian
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