Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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Which late King Tiger would you get?
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 04:34 PM UTC
Even though my stash has about 75 kits, I still do not have a King Tiger. I want a late KT without Zimm. I see Dragons Ardennes kit # 6900 and Takoms late kit # 2130. Both seem to fit the bill. For those that have built them which do you think is the better kit? accuracy and build-ability are my highest criteria. Interiors are not important one way or another. Is there a kit I overlooked?
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 07:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Even though my stash has about 75 kits, I still do not have a King Tiger. I want a late KT without Zimm. I see Dragons Ardennes kit # 6900 and Takoms late kit # 2130. Both seem to fit the bill. For those that have built them which do you think is the better kit? accuracy and build-ability are my highest criteria. Interiors are not important one way or another. Is there a kit I overlooked?
Dragon King Tiger kit number 6900 has the late pattern, single-link tracks and 18-tooth drive sprockets, and depicts one of a small test batch delivered to the 506th Schwere Panzer Abteilung in August/September, 1944. The purpose was to field test the new tracks. They passed with flying colors, but because stocks of the old double-link tracks had to be used up, they did not reappear on production King Tigers until March, 1945.
The bad news is that the test batch all had Zimmerit, as did the rest of the tanks with standard tracks accepted by the 506th at that time. Between September and December, the battalion lost 14 of its 45 tanks in the fighting around Aachen, and these were replaced in December, 1944, with new King Tigers with double-link tracks and no Zimmerit, so the unit would be up to strength for the Ardennes offensive. If you want to build the Dragon kit as is, you could depict one of the tanks issued in March 1945.
For a plain, vanilla King Tiger without Zimmerit, any other Dragon boxing with the nine-tooth drive sprocket and double link tracks would do just fine for the SS 501st battalion in the Ardennes. It could also depict any of the 14 replacement tanks in the Army 506th. However, photos of the 506th are very scarce, unfortunately.
The Takom kit depicts a March, 1945 production model, with 18-tooth sprocket, single-link tracks, and includes parts for a fictional summer, 1945, variant with stereoscopic rangefinder, revised engine deck, infrared night vision scope and optional 105 mm gun. With proper references, Takom's kit has most of the parts to backdate to an earlier vehicle (you'll need to source the raised engine deck screens yourself from an aftermarket set).
AOS
Joined: September 29, 2005
KitMaker: 75 posts
Armorama: 74 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 08, 2020 - 08:32 PM UTC
For late King Tigers I know following kits:
Dragon 6232 "Late Production Ardennes 1944"
Dragon 6209 "Last Production w/transport track"
HobbyBoss 84532 "Feb 1945 Production"
Academy 13229 "Last Production"
(or as Eduard boxing):
Eduard 3715 "Panzer VI Ausf.B Tiger II"
Eduard 3741 as "Weekend Edition"
Which kit is the best - I don't know ...
Dragon 6232 "Late Production Ardennes 1944"
Dragon 6209 "Last Production w/transport track"
HobbyBoss 84532 "Feb 1945 Production"
Academy 13229 "Last Production"
(or as Eduard boxing):
Eduard 3715 "Panzer VI Ausf.B Tiger II"
Eduard 3741 as "Weekend Edition"
Which kit is the best - I don't know ...
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 03:23 AM UTC
You could try searching Scalemates for reviews and sprueshots to see which are better, which kits are more complete, and which kits require AM PE, etc. Also price ranges from various outlets.
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 03:29 AM UTC
You might also consider Meng’s offering. At some point the wonky suspension alignment was fixed and the plastic also changed from red to beige - apparently the latter is corrected.
I have read (stuff written by people whose knowledge of such matters I respect) that it is the current leader but other opinions may differ.
I have read (stuff written by people whose knowledge of such matters I respect) that it is the current leader but other opinions may differ.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 05:44 AM UTC
So is the Meng offering and Dragons kit 6254 the same version? Older track and 9 tooth sprocket with no zimm.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 06:25 AM UTC
I always liked Dragon #6254
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 08:24 AM UTC
For whatever reasons, known only to the manufacturers, they all get it wrong with the Kgs 73/800/152 tracks included in the kits. Neither the tracks tested on the 506th KTs in the Ardennes, nor the tracks to be used on the March 1945 production KTs, were handed/mirrored/symmetrical. One type of link was used to create both the right and left runs. The "F2" links found in Dragon 6232 are the correct ones to use for a late/final KT. The triple track hangers and studs found on the March 1945 turrets are positioned so that only the "F2" type links could be mounted on them.
You'll have to get additional "F2" links or use Friulmodel ATL-37 or ATL-92 links which match the Dragon "F2" links in order to accurately depict this tank.
You'll have to get additional "F2" links or use Friulmodel ATL-37 or ATL-92 links which match the Dragon "F2" links in order to accurately depict this tank.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 08:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Even though my stash has about 75 kits, I still do not have a King Tiger. I want a late KT without Zimm. I see Dragons Ardennes kit # 6900 and Takoms late kit # 2130. Both seem to fit the bill. For those that have built them which do you think is the better kit? accuracy and build-ability are my highest criteria. Interiors are not important one way or another. Is there a kit I overlooked?
As Anthony said, Dragon's kit 6254 would fit the bill for a post-Zimmerit King Tiger suitable for the Battle of the Bulge. Or you could use kit 6900 and substitute an aftermarket set of double-link tracks (the kit also includes the nine-tooth drive sprockets). Zvezda bought Dragon's original King Tiger molds, and has re=released the kit, but it has old-school styrene links, not the Magic Tracks, and has no photo etch, so you'd need a set of engine screens, at least.
Alternatively, Dragon's King Tigers with molded on Zimmerit look quite good, if you want to model the summer/fall campaigns.
alanmac
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 3,033 posts
Armorama: 2,953 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 09:02 AM UTC
Hi
I have always wanted to get the Dragon kit 6254 but it's been out of production for some time and any that come up on Ebay etc tend to go for silly money, so an alternative of that same variant from another manufacturer would be good even if some additional parts/corrections required. Any suggestions?
Alan
I have always wanted to get the Dragon kit 6254 but it's been out of production for some time and any that come up on Ebay etc tend to go for silly money, so an alternative of that same variant from another manufacturer would be good even if some additional parts/corrections required. Any suggestions?
Alan
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 12:49 PM UTC
Robert, when did Meng fix their kits suspension?
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 01:43 PM UTC
If you want a KT without Zimmerit, the Meng KT will/may work for you. I got a recent Meng KT, and if you don't want ZImmerit, you're in luck. It doesn't come with Zimmerit, you need to add if you want it, either with Meng's own decal type Zimmerit, or the ATAK Zimmerit that I'm going to use. You can get an interior 'upgrade' from Meng, too, if you're so inclined. That said, whether the Meng KT is a 'late' version, I don't know. Also, I have both the 'Henschel' and 'Porsche' turret Dragon KT kits. I've been a huge fan of Dragon, though I don't know how they compare to the Meng kit, but both the Dragon kits I have have molded on Zimmerit.
cabasner
Joined: February 12, 2012
KitMaker: 1,083 posts
Armorama: 1,014 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 01:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Robert, when did Meng fix their kits suspension?
I presume the 'fix' referred to in this thread relates to the slightly angled (upwards) wheel posts. which was the case if the running gear was installed per the kit instructions. I haven't checked the as yet unbuilt Meng KT that I have for this, but whether or not this has been addressed, I planned on verifying the defect and fixing it on my model, if needed. Nice to think that may have been addressed, though.
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 09, 2020 - 09:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi
I have always wanted to get the Dragon kit 6254 but it's been out of production for some time and any that come up on Ebay etc tend to go for silly money, so an alternative of that same variant from another manufacturer would be good even if some additional parts/corrections required. Any suggestions?
Alan
As I mentioned, Dragon sold their original 2004 King Tiger molds to Zvezda. They have upgraded their current molds, but you'd need a magnifying glass to see most of the improvements. The earliest version had individual track links molded on sprues, needing the usual clean-up. while later Dragon boxings had Magic Tracks, which are delivered loose in bags with no clean-up required (the newer Zimmerit versions have DS soft plastic track runs). Now Dragon is reissuing their King Tigers with link and length track.
Zvezda's version has the old track, and no photo etch.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2020 - 03:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Zvezda's version has the old track, and no photo etch.
So, is the Zvezda/Dragon kit good value, even though it will need some PE?
RLlockie
Joined: September 06, 2013
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 938 posts
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2020 - 05:52 AM UTC
Helpfully, there weren’t a lot of changes in the production run following the introduction of the Serienturm in June 1944 and even fewer in the last six months of the war. In Oct 1944 the jack was omitted and four vent lines for the fuel tanks installed, the following month a rain guard was fitted over the gunner’s sight, then it was Dunkelgruen paint and ribbed track guards from March and the aforementioned Kgs 73/800/152 tracks from April. Not a lot of work to do for adapting a late model to any of those months’ configurations.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2020 - 08:14 AM UTC
I was looking at Andy's review of Mengs king Tiger and saw where the tracks were to be joined, they were short a link that was needed. Has this been corrected or are a set of Friules on order?
I do not have the Meng kit but wondered about the cause of the road wheel arms not being parallel with the ground. Would sanding down the interior support beam where it glues to the lower hull bring the interior mounting holes where the road wheel arms attach, closer to the hull, changing the angle of the road wheel arms when they are attached?
I do not have the Meng kit but wondered about the cause of the road wheel arms not being parallel with the ground. Would sanding down the interior support beam where it glues to the lower hull bring the interior mounting holes where the road wheel arms attach, closer to the hull, changing the angle of the road wheel arms when they are attached?
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2020 - 08:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Zvezda's version has the old track, and no photo etch.
So, is the Zvezda/Dragon kit good value, even though it will need some PE?
Each customer will have to do the math for themselves, depending on how much it will cost them to get the Zvezda kit, how elaborate a set of PE they want to buy, and whether they want aftermarket tracks, and then compare that total with just getting a Dragon kit off E-bay. As always, your mileage may vary.
john3591
Joined: July 26, 2020
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Monday, August 10, 2020 - 11:47 AM UTC
Dragon myself. I am looking at a non zimmerit late model probably 9 tooth sprocket Abt 501 Ardennes. Most likely I will attempt to get kit 6900, 6254 or 6324.Any of these will work for me. I built the "Cyberhobby" version 9144 with the Poteau ambush figures as the "octopus camo scheme" years ago and was never really happy with the finish and my early attempt at weathering. I like the Dragon kits but wasn't happy with the way they connected 4 road wheels with a sprue to assemble them all at once, even if the "sprue connector" wasn't seen it just seemed to cheapen the model in some way to me.---John
GeraldOwens
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 11, 2020 - 01:17 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Dragon myself. I am looking at a non zimmerit late model probably 9 tooth sprocket Abt 501 Ardennes. Most likely I will attempt to get kit 6900, 6254 or 6324.Any of these will work for me. I built the "Cyberhobby" version 9144 with the Poteau ambush figures as the "octopus camo scheme" years ago and was never really happy with the finish and my early attempt at weathering. I like the Dragon kits but wasn't happy with the way they connected 4 road wheels with a sprue to assemble them all at once, even if the "sprue connector" wasn't seen it just seemed to cheapen the model in some way to me.---John
That would appear to be purely a Cyber Hobby iteration. Those conjoined road wheels were tooled for Dragon's line of pre-assembled and painted tank kits, to speed production. It would appear these molds were used to keep down costs on the Cyber Hobby kit you bought. All the Dragon King Tigers I've bought have individual road wheels and separate swing arms for the suspension.
john3591
Joined: July 26, 2020
KitMaker: 40 posts
Armorama: 39 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 - 04:50 AM UTC
Good to know, thanks.---John
nsjohn
Joined: July 26, 2018
KitMaker: 279 posts
Armorama: 265 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 - 11:04 AM UTC
I hesitate to make any comment on this thread, as so many people know so much more than me about Royal Tigers, but no-one seems to have mentioned the Hobby Boss kits and Das Werk have re-issued the Takom Kits at a lower price as they don't have an interior. There is also the Tamiya kit with the production turret, but I suspect that is an earlier version, although they did issue it as a limited edition Ardennes version, which I do not think had Zimmerit, as they were all virtually new Tanks.
TopSmith
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 - 12:33 PM UTC
Any reasonable comment is appreciated. 
Totalize
Joined: February 04, 2009
KitMaker: 743 posts
Armorama: 549 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 - 01:09 PM UTC
This is good information for me. I have 6254 (still sealed) and 2 of the Meng kT's final version and have not build any of them yet. I am going to book mark this this thread for future reference.
panamadan
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 1,513 posts
Armorama: 1,449 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2020 - 01:20 PM UTC
I built the Meng kit and is was a fun build with great fit.
Dan
Dan
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