Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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What is the best acrylic primmer for armor
oyoy23
Joined: July 11, 2009
KitMaker: 410 posts
Armorama: 119 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 02:03 AM UTC
Really don’t want to use enamel do I have a choice.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 02:08 AM UTC
Badger Stynylrez is great stuff. It's also sold and Ammo of Mig One Shot Primer.
There are some good videos about it.
There are some good videos about it.
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 02:39 AM UTC
If your armor is a plastic kit, use of a primer is usually not necessary IMHO. A primer is to prepare a surface for painting - to smooth a surface, or to make adhesion pf paint better. If the surface is bare smooth plastic it's already prepped for paint - as long as the paint is designed for plastic models. Of course, resin, brass, and PE parts require priming for good paint adhesion. IMO primer, on plastic, is just another unnecessary (thick) layer of paint that could fill or obscure fine surface detail.
18Bravo
Joined: January 20, 2005
KitMaker: 7,219 posts
Armorama: 6,097 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 03:14 AM UTC
+1 on the above.
kinmanb
Joined: March 19, 2013
KitMaker: 52 posts
Armorama: 49 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 03:29 AM UTC
I use the stynylrez- got it on Amazon for (I think) $15- 3 colors - black, white and grey. Easy to use, I am happy with it
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 03:37 AM UTC
The use of a primer will promote adhesion especially since acrylics can have problems bonding to plastic. And metal. And resin. If you have done any putty work, PE, resin, or other types of mixed media, it is best to put down a primer coat to give everything a even colored base to paint on. Otherwise you can get an uneven coat with the various media showing thru the paint. To get an even coat you would have to apply a heavier base coat. I rarely used primer in the days of enamels. But I had some issues getting Tamiya paints adhering and they flaked right off. When I decided to go to nothing but acrylics I found that at times there was adhesion issues with the paint lifting off when I handled the model, even after allowing several days to fully cure. Primers also hide a multitude of sins, such as sanding marks. It also will show imperfections in the plastic that could show thru the paint which you will have to sand down your new paint job to fix and then you have to redo the whole paint scheme again. If you spot it in the primer you can fix it and just hit that area with primer.
There are some who say don't, some who say do, some say it depends. It's up to you.
There are some who say don't, some who say do, some say it depends. It's up to you.
Tank1812
Joined: April 29, 2014
KitMaker: 1,112 posts
Armorama: 886 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 03:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If your armor is a plastic kit, use of a primer is usually not necessary IMHO. A primer is to prepare a surface for painting - to smooth a surface, or to make adhesion pf paint better. If the surface is bare smooth plastic it's already prepped for paint - as long as the paint is designed for plastic models. Of course, resin, brass, and PE parts require priming for good paint adhesion. IMO primer, on plastic, is just another unnecessary (thick) layer of paint that could fill or obscure fine surface detail.
I think it depends on paint being used. If using Tamiya paint I agree no primer needed. If using Vallejo paints I would highly recommend using primer first. That’s been my experience as I use both other those brands.
Tojo72
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
Armorama: 3,509 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 04:06 AM UTC
I prefer the enamel acrylics like Tamiya Extra Fine or Mr Surfacer 1200,but my shop ran out so I tried the Badger stuff which really levels out and sands great.
jon_a_its
Joined: April 29, 2004
KitMaker: 1,336 posts
Armorama: 1,137 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 04:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Badger Stynylrez is great stuff. It's also sold and Ammo of Mig One Shot Primer.
There are some good videos about it.
This, it's the best stuff going, outside of etch primer for models & I haven't seen that for years!
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 05:05 AM UTC
I use Tamiya acrylics thinned with their lacquer thinner for airbrushing exclusively, so I've never had a need for primer on plastic kits. But as Scarred pointed out if you're adding brass, PE, or resin AM to the plastic kit it would be advisable to prime the entire model for a consistent surface.
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 05:33 AM UTC
Add me to the list of Stylinrez proponents. Hands down the best hobby primer available.
Trisaw
Joined: December 24, 2002
KitMaker: 4,105 posts
Armorama: 2,492 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 05:41 AM UTC
Tamiya Surface Primer works for me. Shop around...you can probably find it for cheaper than Amazon maybe.
https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Surface-Primer-180ml-Spray/dp/B000BMXRUM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3PO0D5ZIE25GT&dchild=1&keywords=tamiya+surface+primer&qid=1599931839&sprefix=tamiya+sur%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-1
Mr. Surfacer 500-1200 also works with the higher the number, the smoother the primer.
https://www.amazon.com/Surfacer-Spray-170ml-Gundam-Hobby/dp/B00124OI24/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=MR+gunze+primer&qid=1599932147&sr=8-1
Whatever primer color you choose (gray, black, or white) is up to you although many figure modelers swear to black or gray.
I find that primer helps prevent mold, mildew, oils, and gunk from growing on the plastic and resin and eating through the top paint. Primer seals the -whatever- that may have been left on the plastic or resin, even if washed, and essentially kills it by sealing it from the environment. That way you have a dead level surface to repaint any chips or whatever...and to weather and add pigments without "feeding" the plastic -whatever- growths underneath moisture and air.
Sure, you can wash the plastic clean before painting, but unless you're wearing gloves all the time, the plastic is going to get your fingerprints on it. Primer prevents most growth from occurring.
And if you weather, scrub, and add pigments and accidentally take off the paint, you will always have a level primer color surface to build the paint back up on because weathering to bare plastic might cause water and moisture to be trapped underneath the paint and cause future problems. The primer acts as a rough surface to prevent water from flowing around bare plastic. Hey, real tanks use primer too.
It's like a framed photo or poster against a matte background. Professional art framers add a background so you don't "see through" the photo or poster. Some beginner modelers post photos of their finished builds and one can see the uneven paint job because the paint is translucent to the bare plastic---they didn't use primer to prevent the light from reflecting off the bare plastic underneath the thin paint.
But to each his or her own. You don't HAVE to use primer, but I highly recommend it after mold and mildew grew on my tanks painted without primer when I was a kid.
https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Surface-Primer-180ml-Spray/dp/B000BMXRUM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3PO0D5ZIE25GT&dchild=1&keywords=tamiya+surface+primer&qid=1599931839&sprefix=tamiya+sur%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-1
Mr. Surfacer 500-1200 also works with the higher the number, the smoother the primer.
https://www.amazon.com/Surfacer-Spray-170ml-Gundam-Hobby/dp/B00124OI24/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=MR+gunze+primer&qid=1599932147&sr=8-1
Whatever primer color you choose (gray, black, or white) is up to you although many figure modelers swear to black or gray.
I find that primer helps prevent mold, mildew, oils, and gunk from growing on the plastic and resin and eating through the top paint. Primer seals the -whatever- that may have been left on the plastic or resin, even if washed, and essentially kills it by sealing it from the environment. That way you have a dead level surface to repaint any chips or whatever...and to weather and add pigments without "feeding" the plastic -whatever- growths underneath moisture and air.
Sure, you can wash the plastic clean before painting, but unless you're wearing gloves all the time, the plastic is going to get your fingerprints on it. Primer prevents most growth from occurring.
And if you weather, scrub, and add pigments and accidentally take off the paint, you will always have a level primer color surface to build the paint back up on because weathering to bare plastic might cause water and moisture to be trapped underneath the paint and cause future problems. The primer acts as a rough surface to prevent water from flowing around bare plastic. Hey, real tanks use primer too.
It's like a framed photo or poster against a matte background. Professional art framers add a background so you don't "see through" the photo or poster. Some beginner modelers post photos of their finished builds and one can see the uneven paint job because the paint is translucent to the bare plastic---they didn't use primer to prevent the light from reflecting off the bare plastic underneath the thin paint.
But to each his or her own. You don't HAVE to use primer, but I highly recommend it after mold and mildew grew on my tanks painted without primer when I was a kid.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 05:46 AM UTC
Here is a pretty good review of Stynylrez it's a two parter...
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDm3BhnTQ5A&feature=youtu.be
Part 2
https://youtu.be/ZSDtFbWRB-o
I've used Vallejo and AK but I like the Stynylrez a lot more.
I also like Mr. Surfacer, but that's not an acrylic.
Part 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDm3BhnTQ5A&feature=youtu.be
Part 2
https://youtu.be/ZSDtFbWRB-o
I've used Vallejo and AK but I like the Stynylrez a lot more.
I also like Mr. Surfacer, but that's not an acrylic.
brekinapez
Joined: July 26, 2013
KitMaker: 2,272 posts
Armorama: 1,860 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 06:15 AM UTC
Mostly Stynylrez here also, but for some projects I have used spray can primers for large projects or even no primer at all depending on the kit and the underlying materials.
I bought a 4oz sampler of black/gray/white Stynylrez a while back and have mainly used the black, but I swear I seem to put a lot on and yet this little bottle has lasted a lot of kits (all 1/35-1/32). Have used the gray a bit but not so much the white. I am saving that for some car kits I bought to help keep the base coat stay bright. I'm trying to paint a '57 Bel Air, not a Luftwaffe fighter.
I bought a 4oz sampler of black/gray/white Stynylrez a while back and have mainly used the black, but I swear I seem to put a lot on and yet this little bottle has lasted a lot of kits (all 1/35-1/32). Have used the gray a bit but not so much the white. I am saving that for some car kits I bought to help keep the base coat stay bright. I'm trying to paint a '57 Bel Air, not a Luftwaffe fighter.
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 06:53 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mostly Stynylrez here also, but for some projects I have used spray can primers for large projects or even no primer at all depending on the kit and the underlying materials.
I bought a 4oz sampler of black/gray/white Stynylrez a while back and have mainly used the black, but I swear I seem to put a lot on and yet this little bottle has lasted a lot of kits (all 1/35-1/32). Have used the gray a bit but not so much the white. I am saving that for some car kits I bought to help keep the base coat stay bright. I'm trying to paint a '57 Bel Air, not a Luftwaffe fighter.
Yeah it seems like you do use a lot but you're not. Probably because you don't thin it and a little goes a long way.
In my first post I meant to say Ammo of Mig's One Shot is Stynylrez re-bottled.
VintageRPM
Joined: November 28, 2010
KitMaker: 300 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 07:25 AM UTC
I use Tamiya spray lacquer primer on resin, metal, & sometimes plastic. It now come in pink, too. Remeber there are 2 grades of Tamiys rattle can primer, regular and "Fine".
As for acrylic primer, I've had fantastic results with Vellejo's primers on styrene. They come in various colors and I've used these as the base coat - skips a paint step.
Mike
As for acrylic primer, I've had fantastic results with Vellejo's primers on styrene. They come in various colors and I've used these as the base coat - skips a paint step.
Mike
Vicious
Joined: September 04, 2015
KitMaker: 1,517 posts
Armorama: 1,109 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 08:46 AM UTC
Badger Stynylrez alias Mig One Shot Primer alias Ultimate Pimer from Ultimate Modeling Product,no thinning,perfect self leveling also by brush,you can sand no problem,i dont use primer only sometime if i spray Enamel or paints thinned with lacquer,but if i brush always prime before
Headhunter506
Joined: December 01, 2007
KitMaker: 1,575 posts
Armorama: 1,509 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 09:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I use Tamiya spray lacquer primer on resin, metal, & sometimes plastic. It now come in pink, too.
Mike
I'll see your Tamiya Pink Primer and raise you 14. Stylinrez is available in 18 colors.
mudlark
Joined: June 18, 2019
KitMaker: 28 posts
Armorama: 27 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 09:54 AM UTC
I don't know which is the best primer to use but I use Tamiya acrylics and have found that some colours adhere better to the plastic than others.
I use a primer after washing the model down at the end of the build. This helps the final paint to stick but more importantly helps to show up any problem areas.
I use a primer after washing the model down at the end of the build. This helps the final paint to stick but more importantly helps to show up any problem areas.
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 10:35 AM UTC
Tamiya light gray primer #TS-80
Period - no discussion necessary.
Also now available in red lead color which I find just as good.
However DO NOT use the white primer - have had adhesion problems there!
Period - no discussion necessary.
Also now available in red lead color which I find just as good.
However DO NOT use the white primer - have had adhesion problems there!
KurtLaughlin
Joined: January 18, 2003
KitMaker: 2,402 posts
Armorama: 2,377 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 12:53 PM UTC
I do not use primer. Excepting the Stynlrez product. most model primers are either surfacers or thick gray paint. Surfacers are used to fill scratches and improve the surface, usually by sanding away most of the product. Unless the product is formulated to etch and bond with the surface it doesn't do much for improving adhesion. For plastics, that means a solvent. If your candidate product doesn't have solvent or the appropriate inorganic compounds for bonding to metal, it's not much of a primer.
Instead of a "primer", try gently washing and rinsing your model with a liquid detergent solution and letting it thoroughly dry before painting. The problem isn't usually "mold release" from producing the kit but skin oils, dust, and grime accumulated during building. A proper wash gets you down to a clean base.
To even out the background color and to find flaws you can use any of a number of colors of regular paint. I suggest you use something from the same product line as your finish coat. Often you can get all you need from putting on a base coat of your intended finish paint. There's no need to use a heavy, thick "primer".
KL
Instead of a "primer", try gently washing and rinsing your model with a liquid detergent solution and letting it thoroughly dry before painting. The problem isn't usually "mold release" from producing the kit but skin oils, dust, and grime accumulated during building. A proper wash gets you down to a clean base.
To even out the background color and to find flaws you can use any of a number of colors of regular paint. I suggest you use something from the same product line as your finish coat. Often you can get all you need from putting on a base coat of your intended finish paint. There's no need to use a heavy, thick "primer".
KL
Scarred
Joined: March 11, 2016
KitMaker: 1,792 posts
Armorama: 1,186 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 12, 2020 - 07:16 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Tamiya Surface Primer works for me. Shop around...you can probably find it for cheaper than Amazon maybe.
https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-Surface-Primer-180ml-Spray/dp/B000BMXRUM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3PO0D5ZIE25GT&dchild=1&keywords=tamiya+surface+primer&qid=1599931839&sprefix=tamiya+sur%2Caps%2C258&sr=8-1
Mr. Surfacer 500-1200 also works with the higher the number, the smoother the primer.
https://www.amazon.com/Surfacer-Spray-170ml-Gundam-Hobby/dp/B00124OI24/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=MR+gunze+primer&qid=1599932147&sr=8-1
I've used Mr. Surfacer a few times to correct the textures that are cast to replicate plate steel and cast turrets or hulls. It works great for that, sometimes those textures are overblown and exaggerated, poorly replicated, completely missing or all three.
Scalehobbyist.com has better prices on both those items.
Mr. Surfacer 1000 part number B-519
https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/mr-surfacer-1000-spray-170ml/GSI00000519/product.php?pg=1&ppp=48&sb=stocknumber&so=a&kw=primer&man=GSI
Tamiya Gray Fine Surface Primer Large, Part Number 87064
https://www.scalehobbyist.com/catagories/Paint_and_Construction/surface-primer-fine-light-grey/TAM00087064/product.php?pg=1&ppp=48&sb=stocknumber&so=a&kw=primer&man=TAM
165thspc
#521
Joined: April 13, 2011
KitMaker: 9,465 posts
Armorama: 8,695 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 02:05 AM UTC
I do a fair amount of kit-bashing and scratch building so that means my models are usually a mix of Tan and Olive Drab colored plastic plus a lot of Evergreen white plastic as well.
Unifying the underlying base color for consistent finished paint color rendition was and should still be one of the primary reasons for using a good grade of primer under the finished paint. If it's use is thought wise by the auto refinishing industry then we should probably consider it wise for our models as well.
To speak again of the Tamiya product - it is NOT a thick coating. I have never felt that this product has ever worked to hide desired detail on any of my models. This product goes on smoothly with little tendency to run or sag. It is self leveling and very forgiving if you do happen to lay it on a little too thick. Finally the light "tooth" the primer gives to the surface makes for good adhesion for the final paint coat.
Additionally it CAN be laid on more thickly when needed and then sanded to smooth out small surface irregularities and hide unwanted seams.
The modeler would be wise to keep this trick in their modeling tool box.
p.s. Additionally: use of primer goes a long way towards reducing the usual rough surface that comes with the use of modern 3D printed parts.
Unifying the underlying base color for consistent finished paint color rendition was and should still be one of the primary reasons for using a good grade of primer under the finished paint. If it's use is thought wise by the auto refinishing industry then we should probably consider it wise for our models as well.
To speak again of the Tamiya product - it is NOT a thick coating. I have never felt that this product has ever worked to hide desired detail on any of my models. This product goes on smoothly with little tendency to run or sag. It is self leveling and very forgiving if you do happen to lay it on a little too thick. Finally the light "tooth" the primer gives to the surface makes for good adhesion for the final paint coat.
Additionally it CAN be laid on more thickly when needed and then sanded to smooth out small surface irregularities and hide unwanted seams.
The modeler would be wise to keep this trick in their modeling tool box.
p.s. Additionally: use of primer goes a long way towards reducing the usual rough surface that comes with the use of modern 3D printed parts.
j76lr
Joined: September 22, 2006
KitMaker: 1,081 posts
Armorama: 1,066 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 03:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If your armor is a plastic kit, use of a primer is usually not necessary IMHO. A primer is to prepare a surface for painting - to smooth a surface, or to make adhesion pf paint better. If the surface is bare smooth plastic it's already prepped for paint - as long as the paint is designed for plastic models. Of course, resin, brass, and PE parts require priming for good paint adhesion. IMO primer, on plastic, is just another unnecessary (thick) layer of paint that could fill or obscure fine surface detail.
! agree
VintageRPM
Joined: November 28, 2010
KitMaker: 300 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2020 - 04:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI use Tamiya spray lacquer primer on resin, metal, & sometimes plastic. It now come in pink, too.
Mike
I'll see your Tamiya Pink Primer and raise you 14. Stylinrez is available in 18 colors.
And Vellejo comes in 22 colors.
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