Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
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Priming coat
GregCopplin
United States
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 03:49 AM UTC
When building armor i started using the black and white shading method. I use ammo Mig black and then do highlights in white followed by the base coat of whatever color it calls for. Recently I’ve thought that maybe this doesn’t really work, i seem to get better results when i use modulation sets. I’ve recently got a new King Tiger and was thinking my primer coat might just be red oxide but I’m unsure. What’s everyone’s thoughts on this, i could go with a black primer coat or a red oxide but what do i miss by choosing one or the other?
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
Armorama: 2,052 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 04:03 AM UTC
I’m not sure you miss anything. I used to primer all my models (armor/aircraft/ships/cars) in basic gray primer. This highlights irregularities in the surface. But in reflection, ships, cars and aircraft are supposed to have smooth surfaces, whereas armor not so much. So I don’t bother with standard primers anymore. I chose instead to use either a very dark grey (basically black with a bit of white added) or a Burnt Umber brown color. For German Armor, as you indicate, a very dark red, which is Burnt Umber with a touch of red added for my color choice. I mix these paints in enamel or lacquer, and thin them with lacquer thinner, which gives an added “bite” to the finish, ensuring that whatever colors I chose (acrylic/enamel/lacquer) won’t easily come off. So in answer to you question, I don’t bother with the “primer” coat, I always start with a darker “base coat”.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
GregCopplin
United States
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 04:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I’m not sure you miss anything. I used to primer all my models (armor/aircraft/ships/cars) in basic gray primer. This highlights irregularities in the surface. But in reflection, ships, cars and aircraft are supposed to have smooth surfaces, whereas armor not so much. So I don’t bother with standard primers anymore. I chose instead to use either a very dark grey (basically black with a bit of white added) or a Burnt Umber brown color. For German Armor, as you indicate, a very dark red, which is Burnt Umber with a touch of red added for my color choice. I mix these paints in enamel or lacquer, and thin them with lacquer thinner, which gives an added “bite” to the finish, ensuring that whatever colors I chose (acrylic/enamel/lacquer) won’t easily come off. So in answer to you question, I don’t bother with the “primer” coat, I always start with a darker “base coat”.
VR, Russ
That’s very interesting, i May experiment in the next month or so with the red oxide primer/ base coat and then going over the edges with a black primer To make detail pop. I just feel sometimes if your doing a tri color camouflage then it’s wasted paint. I don’t do highlights or shading on my ship models, but for planes I’ll do it every now and then, i prefer highlighting the detail in black.
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 05:44 AM UTC
I prime my models with grey autobody primer from a rattle can - it snugs down nicely and grips well on plastic and brass PE so my "colour" coats don't peel off. Then I do the black pre-shade with my airbrush and then add colours in thin coats (several shades made by mixing various amounts of buff to lighten the paint) to get my modulation effects. But I wouldn't skip the primer because I've had too many experiences of paint not adhering well and ruining the final result.
Just my 0.02 [insert currency here] worth...
Just my 0.02 [insert currency here] worth...
agriamodeling
Budapest, Hungary
Joined: March 09, 2018
KitMaker: 206 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Joined: March 09, 2018
KitMaker: 206 posts
Armorama: 205 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 07:38 AM UTC
I follow the “black basing method” so I use Gunze Black Finishing Surfacer 1500 from a rattle can on all my AFV models. I love the result, although it does not show irregularities or mistakes/issues done during build. If I have had anything like that, it would be visible during the final painting process. Thankfully I usually do a relatively clean build so it is rare to do any after-touch-up on the model once the base color coat applied.
The reason is that this particilar black surfacer gets into all cavities and onto all kind of materials (plastic, resin, metal etc) easily and evenly. The only place I face challenge is the very fine grilles where the primer (also paint) easily build up. So I take extra care there during spraywork.
Once the balck is dried, I slightly smooth all flat surfaces to ensure nice and light cover.
Than the final coat airbrush process looks like an old 35mm (?) film development process. I carefully airbrush the paint ensuring to use only just enough to show the highlights and flat surfaces and almost not covering the cavities. The result is an over-contrasted model. When I like the result I smooth out this contrast using a very diluted paint cover.
The result is usually very great to my eyes.
Regards,
Tamás
The reason is that this particilar black surfacer gets into all cavities and onto all kind of materials (plastic, resin, metal etc) easily and evenly. The only place I face challenge is the very fine grilles where the primer (also paint) easily build up. So I take extra care there during spraywork.
Once the balck is dried, I slightly smooth all flat surfaces to ensure nice and light cover.
Than the final coat airbrush process looks like an old 35mm (?) film development process. I carefully airbrush the paint ensuring to use only just enough to show the highlights and flat surfaces and almost not covering the cavities. The result is an over-contrasted model. When I like the result I smooth out this contrast using a very diluted paint cover.
The result is usually very great to my eyes.
Regards,
Tamás
panzerbob01
Louisiana, United States
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Joined: March 06, 2010
KitMaker: 3,128 posts
Armorama: 2,959 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 06:23 PM UTC
Old habits die slow and hard. I'm a creature of habit and "prime" all builds with black Floquil RR enamel. Super fine pigments give a satin finish with a primer that holds tight to all modeling media (certainly to metals - for which it was developed -, styrene, resin) and provides a great base surface for virtually any type of paint you might use for the base coats / final coats. Using black gives some nice pre-shading and demarks the panel lines, etc. Which reduces need to spend lots of time on pin washing details.
Cheers! Bob
Cheers! Bob
GregCopplin
United States
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Joined: September 06, 2011
KitMaker: 212 posts
Armorama: 201 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 26, 2020 - 06:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I prime my models with grey autobody primer from a rattle can - it snugs down nicely and grips well on plastic and brass PE so my "colour" coats don't peel off. Then I do the black pre-shade with my airbrush and then add colours in thin coats (several shades made by mixing various amounts of buff to lighten the paint) to get my modulation effects. But I wouldn't skip the primer because I've had too many experiences of paint not adhering well and ruining the final result.
Just my 0.02 [insert currency here] worth...
I’m still new to airbrushing, i usually do one or two Coates of the base color after priming but it’s not i a thin coat. I think that’s why my shadowing and highlights isn’t awesome. I kinda just wing it when it comes to mixing paint and thinner ratios too which probably plays into it