_GOTOBOTTOM
Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
Panther A question
ivanhoe6
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 12:37 PM UTC
Thanks for stopping by!
Did all A models get Zimmerit or just most of them?
I just got Meng's Panther A kit and I really like the rolled steel texture AND my zim skills suck. OR, should I go the sticker/decal route?
BTW, the red plastic freaked me out when I cracked the box !
Thanks in advance !
TopSmith
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: August 09, 2002
KitMaker: 1,742 posts
Armorama: 1,658 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 03:00 PM UTC
I would recommend either Atak Zim or build without the zim. the other zims are not as nice and Mengs surface in rolled steel is good. I have the King tiger and I am not going to use the zim on it because of the surface texture..
GeraldOwens
Visit this Community
Florida, United States
Joined: March 30, 2006
KitMaker: 3,736 posts
Armorama: 3,697 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 03:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for stopping by!
Did all A models get Zimmerit or just most of them?
I just got Meng's Panther A kit and I really like the rolled steel texture AND my zim skills suck. OR, should I go the sticker/decal route?
BTW, the red plastic freaked me out when I cracked the box !
Thanks in advance !


The order to apply Zimmerit was issued in September, 1943, but the material wasn't shipped to all factories immediately. Some early Panther Ausf. A (with the letterbox machine gun port and the single exhaust pipes) were delivered without the coating in October, 1943.
Paska
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: August 30, 2004
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 04:07 PM UTC
A photo on page 62 of Jentz's; Panther Tank, the Quest for Combat Supremacy , shows an Ausf A without Zimmerit. This vehicle was built by Daimler-Benz on or about October 1st, 1943, a month after Ausf A production began, Zimmerit application was to have started in Sept. The Fahrgestell nummer or Chassis Number of this vehicle is 151951. Fgst.Nr. for Panther Ausf A built at Daimler-Benz ran between 151901 through 152575. This means there were 50 Panther Ausf As built at D-B by Oct.1st, when this vehicle, which was without Zimmerit, rolled off the assembly line. Zimmerit application did not start at D-B until November, thus the subsequent October production vehicles did not have it either. A similar delay situation could also have existed at MAN, MNH and Demag as well, I don't know without further research.
Bonaparte84
Visit this Community
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 09:15 PM UTC
I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.
ivanhoe6
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Sunday, October 18, 2020 - 11:47 PM UTC
All good, sensible advice about my dilemma. Thanks guys !
That's what I love about Armorama. The members are so darned knowledgeable and willing share their tips and research.
Because of the first 50 Panthers being without zimmerit and the really nice rolled steel texture I THINK I'm going that route.
Thanks again !
Tom
Removed by original poster on 10/19/20 - 15:35:56 (GMT).
m4sherman
Visit this Community
Arizona, United States
Joined: January 18, 2006
KitMaker: 1,866 posts
Armorama: 1,808 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 10:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.



Agreed, however there are a few pictures of A's with out zimmerit. Pages 50/51 Panther on the Battlefield has 2 pictures of an non-coated A.
WilliamHarry
Visit this Community
United States
Joined: August 07, 2009
KitMaker: 32 posts
Armorama: 30 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 11:59 AM UTC
I have read that all "As" were coated with Zimmerit. Whether in the factory or in the field, they were coated.
Paska
Visit this Community
Washington, United States
Joined: August 30, 2004
KitMaker: 55 posts
Armorama: 54 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 02:18 PM UTC
Bonaparte84
Visit this Community
Hessen, Germany
Joined: July 17, 2013
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 331 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 08:05 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I'm not saying any of the above is wrong, though you have to keep in mind that Zimmerit was not only applied in factories, but also in the field. It is likely that most Panther As built without Zimmerit received it at some point, as this was deemed an important protective measure. Unless you want to build a factory fresh DB vehicle without Zimmerit, your best bet is to stick to an actual picture.



Agreed, however there are a few pictures of A's with out zimmerit. Pages 50/51 Panther on the Battlefield has 2 pictures of an non-coated A.



This is the point where I need to tell my wife that I have to buy more books on the subject. It is utterly inconceivable that I would not have such an information...
ijozic
Joined: May 23, 2007
KitMaker: 109 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 09:18 PM UTC
Meng's Panther A kit is the one with a ball mount (so a mid or late production standard) and all of those came with Zimmerit applied IIRC. Meng released some Zimmerit decals separately intended for that set, though I guess those should have been included with the kit.

From what I recall from a similar thread, the only A's without Zimmerit were some early production standard As which didn't have the ball mount for the front MG.

I have a Takom Early A somewhere (with interior, no ball mount MG) which didn't come with Zimmerit molded, so I guess I could make that one without buying an expansive Atak set for it.
iguanac
Visit this Community
Belgrade, Serbia & Montenegro
Joined: September 06, 2007
KitMaker: 145 posts
Armorama: 131 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 09:56 PM UTC
You could solve your problem in a following way:
Make a Soviet Panther A used by Guards Lieutenant Sotnikov’s tank company. They had 3 "A" Panthers with zimmerit coated hulls and no (or not much remaining) Zimmerit on their turrets. That way you could have histioricaly representative, photo evidenced Panther A revealing some of beautiful textured armor.
http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/10/09/soviet-panthers/
ivanhoe6
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Monday, October 19, 2020 - 11:12 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Meng's Panther A kit is the one with a ball mount (so a mid or late production standard) and all of those came with Zimmerit applied IIRC. Meng released some Zimmerit decals separately intended for that set, though I guess those should have been included with the kit.

From what I recall from a similar thread, the only A's without Zimmerit were some early production standard As which didn't have the ball mount for the front MG.

I have a Takom Early A somewhere (with interior, no ball mount MG) which didn't come with Zimmerit molded, so I guess I could make that one without buying an expansive Atak set for it.



Yep, it's a Panther A Late kit. Now I'm back to the Zim situation. Anybody have experience with the Meng decal zim?

Marko, that was a great link to the Russian Panthers. That would really stand out at a show.

Paska, great photo ! Thanks for posting !
marcb
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
Armorama: 1,226 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 08:44 AM UTC
Assuming it's this kit:
https://www.scalemates.com/kits/meng-model-ts-035-panther-ausf-a--1093512

It needs zimmerit. Fairly easy to make, just takes some planning:
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/278641&page=1
ivanhoe6
Visit this Community
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
Armorama: 1,234 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 - 10:59 PM UTC
Marc thanks for the links !
The do it yourself technique looks easy enough. I would have to practice on a scrap hull though.
And the kit specific decal Zim might be the easiest way to go.
More things to think about...
Thanks again !
marcb
Visit this Community
Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: March 25, 2006
KitMaker: 1,244 posts
Armorama: 1,226 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2020 - 03:30 AM UTC
You're welcome,

Just take it step by step. For the MNH/ DB pattern:
- make the kit into subassemblies, leaving off any part that will get in the way of applying zimm
- apply putty with x-acto tool
- use a sponge to add texture to the putty
- use the rake to add the pattern
 _GOTOTOP