Hi!

I'd like to ask you guys (an especially Gunnie) about tail lights in M35 trucks. Gunnie's trucks Nancy and Sopwith Camel have modified lights looking like in M54 series. I know that this kind was used in early gasoline powered M35s but unfortunately I can't find any photos of M35A1 with this configuration. So it was field modification or some M35A1 had this early lights?

TIA,
Piotr

The M-35A1 has the smaller lights like the ones on Gunnies "Nancy". the larger lights came out on the M-35 A2's.

So this two trucks are M35A2?
http://groups.msn.com/VietnamGuntrucks/guntrucks.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=474
http://groups.msn.com/VietnamGuntrucks/541sttc7071.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=4702

Hi,
I believe that the M35A2 is not from the Nam war era. A2 serie came later ? But I'am not sure, lets the specialist give us the right thing...

pascal

The Cold Sweat Jr. was a A1 and the Assassins was an A2. We had both A1 and A2 in Nam as early as 1969. I drove an M-49 A1 from 1967 to 1968. It was replaced with a M-49A2 after it was destroyed in early 1969.

The Cold Sweat Jr had lights mounted to frame and blackout marker lights on the tail gate so place of mounting is the same in A1 and A2 version. Gunnie moved lights to cargo bed and I'd like to find out why. As I can see it's not obvious for A1.

This is where the A1 lights were mounted. There are no Black out lights on the tailgate of the 2 1/2 ton trucks. What you are referring to is the reflectors that some of the tailgates had. Some of the A1's had the tail lights on the frame and some had them under the cargo bed. The A 2' s had them on the frame. Also the black out lights are incorporated with the tail light as on piece. The top lens was red and the small slit was the black out light.

"Animal" Dave already answered these questions for you. I mounted the tail lights for "Nancy" where I did because that's where they go. The transition to mounting the lights underneath the cargo bed floor to the "flying wings" off the frame rails happened across the production run and is not a firm indicator of 'A1 versus 'A2. The M35 and M35A1 exhibited the early mounting underneath the rear corners of the cargo bed. The M35A1 exhibited both the early style and the later style on the "flying wings" - with the later style more common in the late production run. The M35A2 exhibited the late style "flying wings" mounting the tail lights.

The 'A2 did see service in Vietnam, and like Dave also pointed out, as early as '69. A few of the new 'A2's did find their way into the 'Trucker's hands. Dave also expertly points out the minor instances where these trucks exhibit non-standard features too - like "MAFIA".

To make identification of makes and marks of the original trucks, you have to look at many different angles - if available. Remember, these trucks were combat vehicles and often damaged during convoy runs. They were also meticulously serviced and taken care of. The 'Truckers would repair them with what they had - and what they could lay their hands on. It is not unusual to see a 'A1 sporting the late style (oft-called NATO) integrated turn-signal marker lights found on the 'A2 - if that was all they had on hand. It doesn't necessarily mean that truck's base vehicle was indeed an 'A2.

Even more interesting are photos of the same vehicle over a short period of time. Both Deuces and 5-ton often were pushed well beyond their design limits, and the truck simply "broke". Entire fighting compartments were lifted off a broken truck chassis and put onto a new vehicle. Some times the Fighting Compartment from an 'A1 got transfered to an 'A2 - even in a different unit. Fun to watch...

I try to get photos showing the Cab - as the engine fitting is a good indicator of the truck's base vehicle...

Gunnie

Thank for this very usefull informations.
Cheers
pascal

I'm not an expert in softskins but I tried to find a pattern when ligts were mounted to frame and when to cargo bed. Now I see that it's the same problem as with shermans - without photo of particular vehicle you can't tell anything about details
Many thanks

The problem with this type of equipment modernization in the US Army is that once the new model begins production, some of the older version parts are still on the assembly line and get put on the new model. Once the old style parts are depleted, then "pure" new models come off the assembly lines. Still later, old models get modified in the field or at depot rebuilds and brought up to new standards with new parts. It gives quite a variety in fittings.

Even today, I have two brand new FMTV 2½ ton trucks. Both were off the assembly line at the same time and the serial numbers are almost sequential, but the rear bumpers and tail light confguration are noticeably different. Changes occur in production and it just happens.

Piotr - when attempting to identify a base vehicle used as a convoy escort - look at the Cab first. In the case of the Deuce, the Air Cleaner can quickly tell you what variant of the M35 you're looking at by determining the engine fitted underneath the Hood.

Remember:

M35 trucks were the original gasoline powered vehicles. The Air Cleaner mounted internally under the Hood - the right engine access panel is smooth and unobstructed. Also, no vertical exhaust/muffler "stack" - hence no hole in the right Cab Fender either. There are minor differences in fittings applied to the frame rails too - but not drastically different.

M35A1 trucks were new production - and - M35 field re-engined vehicles. The gasoline powered engine was replaced with a multi-fueled variant. Since both vehicles were kept in service - you can see how the tail light configuration can confuse the observer. The multi-fuel engine came equipped with an external Air Cleaner weathercap - sticking out the right engine access panel. All re-engined trucks became designated 'A1 to simplify maintenance orders. Smaller details like the tail lights, frame rail fittings and rearview mirrors did not always get refitted if still serviceable. When they did, it was at different points in the life cycle of the truck. The exhaust/muffler pattern remained basically the same in the 'A1 configuration as in the M35 variant to modeling purposes - again - no hole in the right Cab Fender too. The dashboard in the M35 is different than the M35A1 because of the engine fit too, but most don't spot this detail.

M35A2 trucks were all multi-fuel variants factory delivered, with the external Air Cleaner weathercap and the vertical exhaust/muffler "stack". They came with the newer integrated turn signal marker lights and the new tail light mounting as well. The Radiator Grills on the Cab were most often covered with additional mesh (provided in the AFV Club kit) as increased means of keeping debris from cluttering the cooling system. The dashboard in the 'A1 and 'A2 are quite similiar.

The original AFV Club kit (#3504 - not presently in production) gives you the 'A2 details faithfully. The M35A1 Quad .50 (Nancy) gun truck kit gives you the original #3504 kit plus details to render both the gun truck as well as an 'A1 with most of the details a casual observer would catch. This kit is a good buy.

Using either AFV Club kit, you can backdate the model to represent the M35 gas-powered truck too by adding your own detailing and revising the dashboard. Presently, the AFV Club kit(s) do not offer you all of these details - you'll be doing most of the conversion yourself. It isn't difficult, however.

Sorry for the longish post - I tried to spotlight the differences to help you out...

Gunnie

good am,
tail lights on the twice and a half-remembering back my in usaeur-a dx program was initiated-remove and replace the m35 power train with the lds engine-basically it was a old m35 with a up-graded power train. at the same period in time, we received the turn signal kit modification, either way you work it during that period a lot of mox-nix modification were applied-per mwo or per sop.
hope this helps anad if you want to go further a lot of 5tons had 21/2 ton engines in them.
carpe diem