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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
Hosted by Darren Baker
2nd Armored against France?
jackalone72
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California, United States
Joined: November 26, 2003
KitMaker: 104 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 03:00 PM UTC
Hey guys,

I have the Ian Allen book about the Second Armored Division in WW2 the Spearhead Series.One thing I read was for short period in the Africa Campaign we were fighting France. .Maybe I misread or did not understand but when we landed we were attacked by them.So who were we fighting in Africa Italy and Germany right?This what I always thought.I might have read to fast and might have been a big mistake on both sides.Also if we did fight them why are they Allies and why did we give them Tanks?

Forgive me if I am wrong but this through me off a bit I am going to read the chapter again.

Thanx

AJ
cach7
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New York, United States
Joined: October 13, 2002
KitMaker: 444 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 03:17 PM UTC
I might be spelling this incorrect but they where called the viche French. They fought us very briefly before changing sides. I dont no the polictics behind it but we did fight them.
Kencelot
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Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 03:33 PM UTC
Cach7 is correct in that they were the Vichy French. They collaborated with Nazi Germany.
The ones you may be mistaken them for was the Free French Forces.
AntPhillips
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: January 02, 2003
KitMaker: 118 posts
Armorama: 93 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 10:59 PM UTC
I'll try to explain simply and briefly :

After the fall of France on 14th June 1940, the German Army occupied Paris. Paul Reynaud, the French prime minister, realized that the German Western Offensive could not be halted and suggested that the government should move to territories it owned in North Africa. This was opposed by his vice-premier, Henri-Philippe Petain, and the supreme commander of the armed forces, General Maxime Weygand. They insisted that the government should remain in France and seek an armistice.

Reynaud resigned and President Albert Lebrun, appointed Petain as France's new premier he immediately began negotiations with Germany and on 22nd June signed an armistice with Germany.

The terms of the agreement divided France into occupied and unoccupied zones, with a rigid demarcation line between the two parts. The Germans would directly control three-fifths of the country, an area that included northern and western France and the entire Atlantic coast. The remaining section of the country would be administered by the French government at Vichy under Marshal Petain.

The French Army was disbanded except for a force of 100,000 men to maintain domestic order. The 1.5 million French soldiers captured by the Germans were to remain prisoners of war.

The French government also agreed to stop members of its armed forces from leaving the country and instructed its citizens not to fight against the Germans, France also had to pay the occupation costs of the German troops.

Over the next four years Petain led the right-wing government of Vichy France. The famous revolutionary principles of "Liberty, Equality, Fraternity" were replaced by "Work, Family, Fatherland".

Many French troops were evacuated to Britain and formed the Free French Army under General De Gaulle, these troops fohgt alongside the Allies in many campaigns.

Much of the French Fleet was berthed at Oran in Algeria and were attacked by the Royal Navy lest they be used by Axis forces in the Mediterranean.

The Germans also allowed France to keep its territories in Syria and Algeria

Syrias position on the Eastern Mediterranean coast made it strategically important for both Britain and Nazi Germany. The Allies also feared that Petain would allow the Luftwaffe to establish air bases in the country.

On 8th June 1941 the British Army and Free French forces entered Syria from Iraq and Palestine. After facing tough resistance from the Vichy forces the Allies captured Damascus on 17th June. The armistice was signed on 12th July and pro-British regimes were maintained in Syria for the rest of the war.

Vichy French Forces also initially opposed the Allies after the Operation Torch landings in North Africa, but were eventually persuaded to join forces with the Allies and opppose the Axis forces in Tunisia

Free French Forces fought throughout the North African campaign alongside the 8th Army and fought some memorable battles particularly at Bir Hacheim.

There were also of course forces opposed to the German occupation that remained under great secrecy in France and organised as the Maquis or Resistance, these fought a long war of covert operations including sabotage and espionage for the Allied cause.

After the D-day landings took place the Maquis and other resistance groups emerged to help in the liberation of their country.

Marshal Petain and his ministers fled to Germany where they established an exiled government at Sigmaringen.

In 1945 the leaders of the Vichy government were arrested and some were executed for war crimes.

I'm sorry if this is a bit long but its a complex history only part of which can be touched on here, but I hope this gives you an insight into the split of French Forces in WW2.

Happy modelling
Ant
RIMA
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Overijssel, Netherlands
Joined: September 08, 2002
KitMaker: 285 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 30, 2004 - 11:21 PM UTC
And also not to forget the British Navy sank the French Vichy Navy in there Harbor in ( sorry forgot the name ) because the French refuse to join the Allied sides. This put also a blow to the relation beetween the French and the English.
Also not to forget the political and diplomatic problems beetween Roosevelt and De Gaule ( the free French movement ). Roosevelt didnīt trusted De Gaule and saw in him as the second Napoleon Bomaparte.
Ok go to fare there
AntPhillips will be nice to have you at the table and have a histiorical conversation could be nice.
Cheers
mlb63
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Connecticut, United States
Joined: October 22, 2003
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Posted: Monday, May 31, 2004 - 03:38 AM UTC
RIMA you are right when you say that they were sunk after not switching sides but that was one of the options available to them they were also given the option of steaming to the carribean and sitting out the remainder of the war.all in all not the Hoods finest moment.
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