Hi guys
can anyone tell me anything about these 2 shermans?






and last, one for Treadhead re wading trunks





Pete

The top one is a CDL or Canal Defense Light. It used a powerful searchlight to blind and disorientate defending troops during night attacks.

The second looks like a flamethrower, though which version I do not know.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=204
Storm- The second pic, with the 2 barrels is a 75mm/Flamethrower 'Double Barrel' USMC Sherman( see link). Not sure if any of these saw combat, or if it was just a field expedient one-off. Maybe Hollowpoint can pitch in here...
As for the first pic, It's obviously a... ummm, its an early...ahhhh....hmmmm. O.K I have NO clue.

Well the first one is a CDL Tank ..(Canal Defense Light ) it has a double light unit in a cast turret.
I' m still looking fior the other one ..lol

Rick

I would have to agree with Logansdad about the second one being an experimental Flamethrower with a 75mm side by side.

Rick

The top tank is a CDL (Canal Defense LIght) mounted on an M4A1 hull. The CDL concept is to mount a powerful searchlight inside a turret. Using several mirrors it is focused through the small slot on the front of the turret. That way you can have a searchlight without exposing the lense to enemy fire. They were mounted onto Lee and Grants as well. If I recall they were never used because they proved to act like beacons, drawing enemy fire instead of pointing out enemy fire.

The bottom tank is a little more tricky. I think the barrels are over under not side by side. Plus they look small like AA. Based on my observations I found something similar called the Skink AA based on the Grizzly (Canadian version of the Sherman). The Skink was never used because of Allied air superiority by the time the Skink was approved, plus there was sufficient quantity of M16 Halftracks and other AA already in use.

MMM... Shermie, I see now that it appears to be an over/under rather than a side by side. But just 'case it was nagging me (AND I HATE BEING WRONG) I right-clicked the pic & checked "properties"- Taa Daa!
121M4_w_Flamethrower-2.jpg
Storm- Where'd you get the pics?
[EDIT]- Shermie, notice also that the "top" barrel in the pic has a secondary sleeve which extends only 1/3 the length of the barrel...

Well I guess I was wrong. An experimental over under flamethrower it is...

All of the double barrel flame tanks I could find kept the original 75mm or 105mm, of which this pic doesn't seem to show.

Shermie,I am way the heck not trying to say that you are wrong! The only evidence that I was able to produce was that the ORIGINAL person who scanned the pic thought it was an M4 Flametank. I also rather poorly tried to point out that while the 'top' barrel seems to be subcalibre, I didn't mention that the 'bottom' barrel appears to be a stock 75. I'm as interested in getting to the bottom of this as anyone, and not trying to pass my conclusions off as fact. I did say I hate being wrong- that's only because I am far too often... :-)

Hi Guys
I found the pics by searching google and www.alltheweb.com for "Sherman M4" and as I've never seen them before and had very little idea as to what they were(top pic especially) I thought I'd pose the question.
The second pic looks to me like (i'm probably wrong here) it's based on an M4A1 hull, but that's as far as my knowledge goes.
Pete

Storm you are correct, M4A1 hulls on both.

I too thought the bottom barrel might have been a 75mm but it seems to be out of alignment as the original. The angle seems too low. Could be a dummy barrel. The tank may have been unarmed except for the flame unit.

Hey guys you know what ..??? I think we've been had ! I think it just might be two tanks parked side by side ... Look at the back of the tank ..You can see the engine deck is closed on the tank we can see but is folded up on the tank next to it .. Just a thought!!

Rick

Hi Rick
I've had a look at the pic again and to be honest I think it's that little rack on the back of the tank that's folded up.Also there's no shadow from a second vehicle showing.
I could very well be wrong here so other folks input would be greatly appreciated.
Pete

I thought so too at first but I don't think that rack folds like that ...Hey I still think it might be a flame thrower tank but I just threw that out there to see what people think ..lol :-)

Rick

Howdy fellas,

Wow!.....interesting. I have the 'CDL' conversion for the M3 Lee, but wasn't aware that they even made a CDL for the Sherman.......veeeeeery interesting. {feel like the guy on 'Laugh-In'}.....

Tread.

#1 is definitely a prototype Sherman CDL -- It's IDed as the "E" vehicle in Hunnicutt's Sherman, p. 400. Production CDLs were built on Grant/Lee hulls.

#2 God only knows. It doesn't match the alleged over-under flamethrower shown over on Planet Armor. It may be a prototype of that flamethrower, but this photo is modern -- who knows what someone may have cobbled together (The tank is obviously an M4A1 dry, with a low-bustle turret, yet it has a late single-hatch commander's vision copula -- a re-build?). I also don't also discount the Bear's optical illusion theory. This pic looks like it was shot on a museum lot -- Aberdeen perhaps? What's parked on the other side of it? Have any shots from the front? I'm gonna keep looking.

You know I could make a comment here on that quote,but I'll behave :-)

Bloody good!.....I don't want to have to set the 'dogs' on you!.........

to hollowpoint: HOLY MACKERAL!!!.........has the wise and wunderkind been stumped!?!.......say it isn't so!.......... :-) :-)
Bob, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your "cobbled together" remark.....it supports a post I made on another thread that I felt very 'alone' on.........

Tread.

Am I to believe that I have someone stumped??? :-) :-) :-) Just as a thought would the casting number on the side of the turret be able to help shed some light?
Pete

Guys
If you go here

Battletanks

There are front and rear pics of said vehicle.
Pete

Interestingly enough, those pictures were taken at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds some time ago (70s?). I wonder where that vehicle is now? The APG shuold have a record of it and where it is at the moment.

Aha! It is Aberdeen! I thought I recognized the building in the background and the style of sign in front. This tank wasn't parked out there when I visited APG three years ago.

I poked around the books some more and near as I can figure, this must be a prototype for a POA-CWS 75-H2 flamethrower. The production tank was used by the Marines in the Pacific.

You know, that pic really is a sort-of optical illusion -- from the side view it was impossible for us to tell whether the tubes were over-under or side-by-side. Looking at the frontal shot, we can see that it is actually a bit of both.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh...............bottom line is; our good Hollowpoint was indeed not stumped.

All is right in the world again, and my faith is restored!

Tread.

Shucks, looks like it's back to the search engines to see what else I can dig up hehe.
Pete

I was @ APG last year and DON'T remember anything that looked like pic #2.....