Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
taking forever..getting frustrated
godfather
Canada
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 03:21 PM UTC
I am building my first model in years..it's taking forever (Horch 4x4). Mostly because of the painting. I painted the seat light interior buff as a base coat goes on almost transparent, ok maybe need a 2nd coat (plastic is grey). Wait until the net day I paint again some better adhesion but still see light streaks of grey. Switch to wheels three days to coat wheel in black? Once again paint not sticking. Went and bought some Tamiya grey primer tested it with my light buff and still paint not gripping too well. These two colors are MM brand. Can I expect to have to apply multiple coats to all that I paint even with primer? How do I know if I mixed the paint well enough? And does brush material make a different I was using nylon for this particular work. I staring to get very frustrated I apologize if tehis is not teh right forum but there are more model builders here that may have experienced what I have mentioned.
SS-74
Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 05:21 PM UTC
Hi there, in short, I think, yes, it does require multiple layer of paints for even primed surfaces. I don't use brush for paints except dry brushing, but while I am using air brush, I also brush multiple layer of paints. So just take your time.
HTH.
HTH.
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 05:32 PM UTC
Sounds like it is a combination of things, as it usually is.
If airbrushing is not an option, I think you should buy a better quality paintbrush. Something with softer bristles. Not saying you have to get extravagant in your choice of brushes, but nylon in my opinion is too stiff for the materials we use in model building. Nylon is good for thicker paints and rougher materials.
Plastic is an oily medium, which needs preparation. I usually wash my models in warm soapy water and let air dry. The normal liquid soap used for washing dishes by hand has an additive that breaks down the oil and leaves a good surface to paint on. A primer is a good thing to do, but when hand brushed can get a bit thick. You can get primer in spray form, but maybe this is what the primer you stated you had bought is...
Anyway it sounds like you need a softer brush. Model Master paints are the best you can buy in my opinion, but aren't really made for hand painting. They should nevertheless work. The key issue with paint is that it needs to be applied in thin, even coats. It is possible that several coats are needed, but usually is not the case. If by large you feel you need to paint too many layers, you might want to prepare you paint less and use it a bit thicker.
I am not an expert on the subject, but I shouldn't be that far off...
Have fun no matter what...
If airbrushing is not an option, I think you should buy a better quality paintbrush. Something with softer bristles. Not saying you have to get extravagant in your choice of brushes, but nylon in my opinion is too stiff for the materials we use in model building. Nylon is good for thicker paints and rougher materials.
Plastic is an oily medium, which needs preparation. I usually wash my models in warm soapy water and let air dry. The normal liquid soap used for washing dishes by hand has an additive that breaks down the oil and leaves a good surface to paint on. A primer is a good thing to do, but when hand brushed can get a bit thick. You can get primer in spray form, but maybe this is what the primer you stated you had bought is...
Anyway it sounds like you need a softer brush. Model Master paints are the best you can buy in my opinion, but aren't really made for hand painting. They should nevertheless work. The key issue with paint is that it needs to be applied in thin, even coats. It is possible that several coats are needed, but usually is not the case. If by large you feel you need to paint too many layers, you might want to prepare you paint less and use it a bit thicker.
I am not an expert on the subject, but I shouldn't be that far off...
Have fun no matter what...
LUCKYBULLET
Canada
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 44 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: July 20, 2002
KitMaker: 44 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 06:49 PM UTC
i think hunter is right,you should wash you parts first in a mix of dishwasher soap and water.I had that problem sometime with humbrol paint.Try with a softer paintbrush too.
210cav
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 08:53 PM UTC
I agree, wash her first then try the paint. Also, seek excellence not perfection! Practice, practice, practice. It will not be perfect the first few times. Stay with it and continue to discuss with the experts that frequent Armorama. I learn a great deal wfrom these fine folks. Look at the article on Armor Texture as an example of what we can all strive to achieve. Fantastic work.
DJ
DJ
penpen
Hauts-de-Seine, France
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
Armorama: 929 posts
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
Armorama: 929 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 09:53 PM UTC
I also paint with brushes and I've always needed to apply several coats.
I use humbrol enamels.
The rule is to make your brush strokes in one direction for your first coat.
For exemple, that could be from the back to the front of a panel.
The next day, when you apply your second coat, you do it perpendicular to
the preceding one ! In our case, that's from the left to the right.
Sometimes, you'll be needing a third coat, so you turn 90° again...
I use humbrol enamels.
The rule is to make your brush strokes in one direction for your first coat.
For exemple, that could be from the back to the front of a panel.
The next day, when you apply your second coat, you do it perpendicular to
the preceding one ! In our case, that's from the left to the right.
Sometimes, you'll be needing a third coat, so you turn 90° again...
Epi
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
Armorama: 2,556 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:05 PM UTC
Padrino,
Although all these replies are excelent, one questions has not come up, which MM paints are you using, MM Acryl's or regular enamels. if you are using Acrylics, the MM brand are intended for airbrushing. They are a little thin. If not, like the guys say, try using a softer brush, for example a sable brush. I dont buy expensive brushes, my set had 8 brushes in it ranging from #000 to 3 and only cost me $9.00. If you are using acrylic paints, and if you can get them, you might want to try Polly Scale. These paints are great for hand brushing.
Although all these replies are excelent, one questions has not come up, which MM paints are you using, MM Acryl's or regular enamels. if you are using Acrylics, the MM brand are intended for airbrushing. They are a little thin. If not, like the guys say, try using a softer brush, for example a sable brush. I dont buy expensive brushes, my set had 8 brushes in it ranging from #000 to 3 and only cost me $9.00. If you are using acrylic paints, and if you can get them, you might want to try Polly Scale. These paints are great for hand brushing.
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 10:34 PM UTC
Hi Padrino,
I use MM enamels and Humbrol myself,and when I need to hand paint I mix the paint with an old paintbrush handle and then close the lid and give it a good shake,really mixes up the paint good,if your is too transparent it may be that its not mixed enough.
And the nylon brushes,I use one for painting groundwork only,their usually for oil painting.
HTH.
modelmaniac
I use MM enamels and Humbrol myself,and when I need to hand paint I mix the paint with an old paintbrush handle and then close the lid and give it a good shake,really mixes up the paint good,if your is too transparent it may be that its not mixed enough.
And the nylon brushes,I use one for painting groundwork only,their usually for oil painting.
HTH.
modelmaniac
2-2dragoon
Washington, United States
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 268 posts
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 608 posts
Armorama: 268 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 - 11:01 PM UTC
For brushes that work... but are inexpensive... go to the craft department at Walmart. They have a large selection of various sizes and types of brushes. They also have sets that would make a great starter set for someone getting back into modelling. They are soft and pliable... and cheap enough that if you ruin one you don't cry.