Andreas (Tankleader) provided some nice detail shots and information about the combat identification panels that are currently in-use to limit friendly-fire incidents in combat.
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FEATURE
The Skinny on Combat Idenification Panels
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 09:20 AM UTC
swin27
Joined: June 20, 2002
KitMaker: 8 posts
Armorama: 6 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 02:18 PM UTC
I would like some more info on the panels that are seen in use, mostly on the sides and rear of the vehicles. The ones that have a step appearance. In some pics the panels go one direction and in others the other way. I would like to know if they are moveable?? If they area not.. what is the purpose for the design??
Thanks in advance!
Scott
Thanks in advance!
Scott
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 07:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I would like some more info on the panels that are seen in use, mostly on the sides and rear of the vehicles. The ones that have a step appearance. In some pics the panels go one direction and in others the other way. I would like to know if they are moveable?? If they area not.. what is the purpose for the design?
But Andy's article describes also this kind of panels! If you check one of the pics in the article, it shows panel with "THIS SIDE OFF" stencil on it. This particular panel is probably inserted to its frame in most correct way. The picture immediately below that shows panel inserted upside down - I'm not sure if it is acceptable to put it this way, but I noticed that many vehicles, particularly at the begining of war in Iraq, had those panels inserted in frames this way. Later I noticed the "THIS SIDE OFF" stencil appeared on most panels and those panels are now almost always inserted "correctly".
I'm not sure what is exactly the purpose of the design, but I understand that for it to be effective, the surface of the panel must be sloped, not vertical. This means that on front armor plates of tank turrets, panels can be just flat, because the turret armor itself is sloped. But on sides of the turret. which are vertical, panels cannot be flat, so instead they are made "venetian style". This way surface of the vertically mounted panel is not vertical, but is a "sloped in sections".
Pawel
ptruhe
Joined: March 05, 2003
KitMaker: 2,092 posts
Armorama: 1,607 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 12:00 AM UTC
This post on ML shows some good detail of the side and rear type panels:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=47209&messageid=1049407121
Paul
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=47209&messageid=1049407121
Paul
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:07 AM UTC
Hello All,
I work with these systems and there are a few little quirks with the I.D. panels. You can turn them off and on depending on which side is showing. The front panels have the velcro straps in the corner, to turn them on you pull them off flip them over with the "This side off" facing towards the turrett. The panels on the side and rear you simply pull them out flip them over with the edges facing down and they are off, with the angles facing up they are on. I hope this answers the questions. I have tons more photos, but have run out of webspace, and my bandwidth here in Iraq isn`t the greatest.
Semper FI
Andy Elesky
I work with these systems and there are a few little quirks with the I.D. panels. You can turn them off and on depending on which side is showing. The front panels have the velcro straps in the corner, to turn them on you pull them off flip them over with the "This side off" facing towards the turrett. The panels on the side and rear you simply pull them out flip them over with the edges facing down and they are off, with the angles facing up they are on. I hope this answers the questions. I have tons more photos, but have run out of webspace, and my bandwidth here in Iraq isn`t the greatest.
Semper FI
Andy Elesky
Quoted Text
I would like some more info on the panels that are seen in use, mostly on the sides and rear of the vehicles. The ones that have a step appearance. In some pics the panels go one direction and in others the other way. I would like to know if they are moveable?? If they area not.. what is the purpose for the design??
Thanks in advance!
Scott
armorguy
Joined: June 25, 2004
KitMaker: 269 posts
Armorama: 178 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:17 AM UTC
Great pictures and article! The pictures reminded me of a couple of markings that I'd seen on the tanks and wondered what they are. First, on the sides (and there are some great pictures of this in the article) there is usually some kind of arrow marking and sometimes a number (such as < > ^ 83 or something like that). What are these? Also, what do the stripes represent around the heat extractor (I think that's what it's called) on the barrel? In one of the pictures in the article, one has 3 stripes, the other has one stripe. Thanks. We appreciate all of our military folks. 
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The panels on the side and rear you simply pull them out flip them over with the edges facing down and they are off, with the angles facing up they are on.
Andy,
I'm afraid this is not quite clear to me... I'm not sure what you mean by edges and angles... Is the panel below turned "on" or "off"?
Pawel
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:33 AM UTC
It is off, the thermal tape is on the opposite side. Flip the panel and insert it into bracket with the "THIS SIDE OFF" side facing the turret side and the CIP is turned "on".
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 02:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
It is off, the thermal tape is on the opposite side. Flip the panel and insert it into bracket with the "THIS SIDE OFF" side facing the turret side and the CIP is turned "on".
I just realized what "THIS SIDE OFF" actually means...
It is obvious that when this text is visible, the panel is "off"... :-)Pawel
Halfyank
Joined: February 01, 2003
KitMaker: 5,221 posts
Armorama: 1,245 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 05:39 AM UTC
I'm curious. The article mentions these panels are effective when viewed through the FLIR? Is this sight always used? What if another sight is used? Would they then go by visual recognition?
piwi
Joined: March 15, 2004
KitMaker: 712 posts
Armorama: 558 posts
Posted: Monday, July 12, 2004 - 05:58 AM UTC
Very intersting !Thanks forsharing that with us !
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:34 AM UTC
Rodger,
The FLIR is the preferred sight. The old day channel can stil be used as well as the ballistic reticle. These are mainly used as back ups it the FLIR should fail. Ever crewman is still trainied in visual identiffication of vehicles, even in the thermal channels. Regardless of what electronic gadgets you use it still requires the human to make the final decision.
Semper FI
Andy
The FLIR is the preferred sight. The old day channel can stil be used as well as the ballistic reticle. These are mainly used as back ups it the FLIR should fail. Ever crewman is still trainied in visual identiffication of vehicles, even in the thermal channels. Regardless of what electronic gadgets you use it still requires the human to make the final decision.
Semper FI
Andy
Quoted Text
I'm curious. The article mentions these panels are effective when viewed through the FLIR? Is this sight always used? What if another sight is used? Would they then go by visual recognition?
Tankrider
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,280 posts
Armorama: 1,208 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 05:48 AM UTC
Yo Andy,
I hope that you are being careful over there... Good write up on the CIPs. I should be in your neighborhood this winter, with some friends. Drop me a line at [email protected] and give me the skinny on TTPs and and any other valuable stuff.
John
I hope that you are being careful over there... Good write up on the CIPs. I should be in your neighborhood this winter, with some friends. Drop me a line at [email protected] and give me the skinny on TTPs and and any other valuable stuff.
John
USArmy2534
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,716 posts
Armorama: 1,864 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 05:00 AM UTC
If only I'd known this during the Abrams ID campaign. Great job showing the differences. I'm not sure, but I didn't really see any info (minus the pictures) of the flat panels on the front of the Abrams. I assuming that they are just flat panels with the thermal tape being the four corner pieces.
Anyway, stay safe and watch out for those damn RPG rounds.
Anyway, stay safe and watch out for those damn RPG rounds.
armorguy
Joined: June 25, 2004
KitMaker: 269 posts
Armorama: 178 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 05:27 AM UTC
USNavy2534,
I'm not sure about this, but from what I gather, the whole rectangular panel is thermal-visible, and the four corner things are just velcro to stick it to the turret.
-armorguy-
I'm not sure about this, but from what I gather, the whole rectangular panel is thermal-visible, and the four corner things are just velcro to stick it to the turret.
-armorguy-
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 08:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If only I'd known this during the Abrams ID campaign. Great job showing the differences. I'm not sure, but I didn't really see any info (minus the pictures) of the flat panels on the front of the Abrams. I assuming that they are just flat panels with the thermal tape being the four corner pieces.
Anyway, stay safe and watch out for those damn RPG rounds.
Hello Jeff,
You are correct Jeff, the corner strips are simple velcro that hold the panel in place. To turn the panel on you reverse it and press it down on the velcro tabs. Most people including the model companies have portrayed these as some sort of frame..
Semper FI
Andy
Vodnik
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 10:33 PM UTC
Also on some tanks the velcro tape is attached as a rectangle around the whole panel, not just on corners. In this case front panels look indeed like they have some sort of frame around them, but it is still just old good velcro.
Pawel
Pawel
straightedge
Joined: January 18, 2004
KitMaker: 1,352 posts
Armorama: 629 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 10:44 PM UTC
I hope they have something else besides just tape to keep the enemy from duplicating it don't they?
There is something classified isn't there? At least I hope so.
Kerry
There is something classified isn't there? At least I hope so.
Kerry
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 04:31 PM UTC
Hello Kerry,
There are many other things, but they tend to be on the expensive side and would require lots of modifications, so this was the most inexpensive and expedient way to field an Identification Friend or Foe to a force operating in the field under wartime conditions.
Semper FI
Andz
There are many other things, but they tend to be on the expensive side and would require lots of modifications, so this was the most inexpensive and expedient way to field an Identification Friend or Foe to a force operating in the field under wartime conditions.
Semper FI
Andz
Quoted Text
I hope they have something else besides just tape to keep the enemy from duplicating it don't they?
There is something classified isn't there? At least I hope so.
Kerry
rokuth
Joined: September 10, 2004
KitMaker: 12 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, September 13, 2004 - 03:14 AM UTC
I always wondered what those panels were. I have some pictures of British armour with CIPS in Iraq during the opening phases of Operation Telic in my gallery.
These pics are from the Ministry of Defense site, specifically from Operation Telic. They have some really great shots of Challenger 2s'.
Few more pics of Scimitars added on Sept 28th '04 to my gallery.
These pics are from the Ministry of Defense site, specifically from Operation Telic. They have some really great shots of Challenger 2s'.
Few more pics of Scimitars added on Sept 28th '04 to my gallery.
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