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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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Sherman Kitbash Question
Stormbringer
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 20, 2002
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Posted: Monday, July 19, 2004 - 01:45 AM UTC
Hi Guys
can anyone please tell me if I can legitimately swap the turrets from the Italeri M4A1 and M4A3(Us Marines) kits?
TIA
Pete
Hollowpoint
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Posted: Monday, July 19, 2004 - 01:50 AM UTC
Yes, you can.

The M4A3(76)W will be the more "legitmate" of the two -- it was a fairly common tank from about August 1944 on in Europe. Leave off all the "Marine" stuff, such as the wooden armor and the wading trunks.

The M4A1(75) with big hatches has been discussed many, many times on this forum, so I won't go into it again. Let it suffice to say that this tank existed, but to build an accurate one, you need to do some body work to the hull.
Stormbringer
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:05 AM UTC
Hi Hollowpoint
Thanks for your reply.I have a couple more questions raised by it though.
1: the M4A3(76w) would not have applique armour,is that correct?
2: What would need doing to the M4A1 hull?
Regards
Pete
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Monday, July 19, 2004 - 02:44 AM UTC
Here is my M4A3 76W with Italeri Marine Sherman hull and Itatleri 76mm turret.

The 75mm M4A1 in the background is NOT the reverse swap but what I call my Frankenstein (hence the name on the hull) since it is made up of all leftover pieces from all my various Sherman leftovers regardless of accuracy. Actually except for the upper hull and the commander's ring it would work.

As to fixes, you need the 75mm with cast-in-cheek armor instead of welded cheek. You also need cast-in-hull applique instead of the welded plates. There are a few more minor issues like removing the travel lock and hinges but those are minor.

Hollowpoint
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Posted: Monday, July 19, 2004 - 03:43 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Hollowpoint
Thanks for your reply.I have a couple more questions raised by it though.
1: the M4A3(76w) would not have applique armour,is that correct?


Correct.


Quoted Text


2: What would need doing to the M4A1 hull?


In case you didn't understand everything Alan wrote, here's a web page with a diagram of the cast-in armor, plus a few pics: http://mmcalc.tripod.com/Shermans/Large_Hatch_75mm_M4A1.html
E23C
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: January 23, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 09:43 AM UTC
Stormbringer this is the conversion Iam doing right now and its going together very well,Making the M4A3(76)W is a nice easy conversion,but as Alan says the other way a M4A1 75mm takes a bit more work.Both are nice inexpensive kits to work with.

Have fun

Regards
Mark
ShermiesRule
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 10:51 AM UTC
I wonder why Italeri decided to use the large hatch M4A1 hull since it was such a rarity. I mean the M4A1 76mm is a very rare large hatch. The Italeri M32 Recovery was not a large hatch. Unless they wanted to save money on the hatches for their M4A3 Calliope, the Jumbo and the M4A3 USMC.

It seems to me that there were so many reasons to have started with the M4A1 small hatched upper hull rather than the large. Who knows what makes these companies tick.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 11:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I wonder why Italeri decided to use the large hatch M4A1 hull since it was such a rarity. I mean the M4A1 76mm is a very rare large hatch. The Italeri M32 Recovery was not a large hatch. Unless they wanted to save money on the hatches for their M4A3 Calliope, the Jumbo and the M4A3 USMC.

It seems to me that there were so many reasons to have started with the M4A1 small hatched upper hull rather than the large. Who knows what makes these companies tick.
When they tooled the large hatched M4A1 76mm it was a common post war tank that equipped most of the western aligned European armies. I believe Italy used the tank and they based the kit off of one of their armies tanks that was on display. When they created the M32, they just saved money by using the same hull. Perhaps they also used this version of the M4A1 in their post war army?

The M4A3 hull came out around 1989. The M4A1 had been around for just short of 10 years by then.

As to what makes them tick, initially, they marketed tanks towards their own countries modelers, mainly WW2 Italian and post war US tanks that Italy used.
andy007
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Wellington, New Zealand
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Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 12:11 PM UTC
Pete I to am going to do this conversion and am planning on putting it in the sherman campaign. I will probaly use the side hull armour from the marines sherman and with a bit of putty put them on the M4A1.
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