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Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Best Abrams?
ThomasB
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Skåne, Sweden
Joined: May 17, 2002
KitMaker: 762 posts
Armorama: 323 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 02:25 AM UTC
Well, I guess the topic says it all. Have been missing an Abrams in my collection of Desert Storm (or maybe I should say Desert Sabre) vehicles, and thought it was time to add one.

So, what kits should I buy, and what should I stay away from.

And since I like to put figures in my hatches. what are there out there in the way of modern u.s. tank crews... I know Dragon had an Abrams with crew a couple of years ago. Is it still around?
Bravo-Comm
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Texas, United States
Joined: March 20, 2002
KitMaker: 525 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 02:34 AM UTC
Thomas B: For my 2 cents worth, You might check out The Tamiya M1A1 kits. Though others here will most likely point you towards the Dragon Kits: and as great as I am sure that they are, (Never Bought one myself) I believe them to bee too complicated and also have the Link Type tracks. If that is what suits you. Then you should give them a try.
Other wise I have never had a reason to complain about the Tamiyas. And they come with great figures. And Soft Vinyl Treads. BUT that's only my opinion !!

DAGGER-1
pipesmoker
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Virginia, United States
Joined: January 31, 2002
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 379 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 03:27 AM UTC
Thomas,
You may want to look at the Trumpeter M1A1 kits. They are supposed to be pretty accurate and not expensive. (here in the States anyway!)
I won the kit with the mineplow at AMPS raffle this year, but I havent started it yet.
It looks pretty good in the box, with both rubberband and link & length tracks. They also supplied screen, chain and wire.
You may want to give it a try.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 03:42 AM UTC
Tom--for my two cents, Tamiya makes a fine M1A1 and M1. You might buy some add on material, but straight out of the box works for me. Never tried the Trumpeter series so I can not comment.
Trust this assists
DJ
m60a3
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Georgia, United States
Joined: March 08, 2002
KitMaker: 778 posts
Armorama: 396 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 04:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And since I like to put figures in my hatches. what are there out there in the way of modern u.s. tank crews... I know Dragon had an Abrams with crew a couple of years ago. Is it still around?


I have see the Dragon crew around in shops. I am not sure if they are in "Shanghai" production but should be around. Also look out for the Verlinden U.S. tank crew. This is an older casting, but was quite nicely done. I think it's Verlinden #133. Another set is their Desert Storm tankers, still in the catalog as number 539.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 07:24 AM UTC
All of the currently produced Abrams tank kits (less the terrible Esci/AMT/Ertl OOP one and the poor Tamiya copy by Academy) have their pluses and minuses.

Tamiya M1A1:
Plus: Good quality, fit and detail. Easy to assemble and builds into a respectable DS/DS version.
Minus: Expensive, only has older style track (started to convert to new track in 1990), only has vinyl track, some detail is simplified due to motorization design, motorization holes need covering, only 2 versions in production (with and without plow)

DML M1A1/A2:
Plus: Four different versions include one with interior and mine plow (3516); one with full crew and interior (3517); M1A2 updated kit (3524) and USMC variant with wading gear (3531), very nicely detailed, has new pattern tracks, individual track links, turret detail is superior to Tamiya. Both the crew men (3020) and mine plow (3804) are sold separately, kits are moderately priced.
Minus: As with all DML kits, the fit is fidgety, especially the bustle rack. Some kits may be OOP, and are getting harder to find. Individual tracks may turn off some builders.

Trumpeter:
Pluses: Cheap and easy to build, readily available, copied the best features from the Tamiya and DML kits, includes both vinyl and link & length tracks (new pattern tracks), four variants available: with mine plow and with mine roller, M1A2 and IFOR M1A1, MILES gear (whoopie light), Hoffman device, .50 cal BFA, removable back deck, separate grill doors, 20mm ammo cans to attach to bustle rack, .50 cal ammo cans, #1 skirt support arm, many clear periscope parts.
Minus:No USMC version, detail is soft in areas, crew figures are bad Tamiya copies, some kits are motorized, overall molding quality is mediocre.

I like the DML ones and have all four. I have several (about 5) of the Tamiya M1A1s, but not the mine plow version, I have the Academy M1A1 and the Trumpeter M1A2 (I have the Esci M1 and M1A1s). I still recommend the DML one over the others.
Linz
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Australia
Joined: March 18, 2002
KitMaker: 181 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 05:19 PM UTC
Sabot has pretty much wrapped this question up, but I do have one thing to add. Over at ML they havea Tweaks List, a list of corrections to various kits. It is applicable to the M1, M1A1 and M1A2 and is for the following kits:

- Shanghai Dragon M1A1HA with mine plow (#3516)
- Shanghai Dragon USMC M1A1HA (#3531)
- Tamiya M1 (#35124)
- Tamiya M1A1 with mine rake (#35158)
- Trumpter M1A2 (#00337)

It also contains reviews of:

- Eduard's M1A1 Detail Set (#35057) for the Academy M1 kit
- Eduard's M1A1 Detail Set (#35333) for the Tamiya M1 kit
- Eduard's M1A1 Detail Set (#35259) for the Shanghai Dragon M1A2 kit
- Verlinden's M1 Update and Interior Set (#621)

It will not give a recommendation, rather it will provide a list of things that can be done to make the kit you choose more accurate. It is rather comprehensive indeed.

Cheers,
Linz
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 10:50 PM UTC
I am aware of the ML M1 Tweaks list, I just chose not to direct folks to that item. Personal reasons.
210cav
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Virginia, United States
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 12:08 AM UTC
Rob---great input. I am a Tamiya nut and I found their M1 series pretty good. I agree about the blasted motorization hull holes. I hate them. Try as you may, they always are a drawback.
thanks again
DJ
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 - 12:21 AM UTC
The Tamiya M1A1 is by far the easiest M1 to build. It fits great and the one aspect of its motorization heritage that benefits the novice builder is the way the top and bottom hull attach. This way you can build the tank hull completely, paint it, detail it, split the hull, add the fully painted and detailed tracks, then add the hull top back to the bottom.

Tamiya just skimped a little when they modified their M1 into the M1A1. They should have updated the track pattern, head light guards and a couple of other details on the back deck. It is still a detailed kit, just not the "best" M1A1 out there.
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