Can someone please post basic wash techniques?, I have read so many different methods it makes me dizzy.. I use acrylics and would like a simple explanation for German Dunkelgelb Panther tank. Do you brush or airbrush washes?, before of after dullcoating?- Any help or links are appreciated

i use a brush with my wahses.
then i do a dry bursh then i would do a
dull coat. i never used acrylics for a wash.
only acrylic oil paint.
so somebody here might be able to help u with the the
acrylic wash.

I've never really don e it "well" except on a kin g tiger and a panther F, but this is what my baisic knowledge says it is


Thin paint, usually a very dark shade of the color the tank is., apply against a gloss coat, acrylic if thge was is oil, and oil if the wash is acrylic, then dull coat.

First off, washing is never done by airbrush. (Just as I said the word "never," I'm sure someone will come along with a caveat).
Second, it is best to just forget about using acrylics for washes. They simply dry too fast and blotchy to be appropriate for this, and once dry they are done. Oils thinned with mineral spirits or turpenoid (NOT the natural turpenoid, though; stay far, far away from that stuff) work very well. They dry much slower, can be cleaned up or reactivated easily, and allow for more subtle build up than the pigments in acrylics. Enamels share many of these favorable qualities as well, but I've found that a "hotter" thinner (i.e. stronger solvent) is needed to effectively thin some brands.
The other consideration is what type of wash you plan on using. There is the whole vehicle wash in which a highly thinned wash (~90% thinner) is applied liberally with a broad brush over the entire vehicle surface. Once dry, a brush with clean thinner can be used to touch up any splotching. The second type is the pin wash in which a slightly less thinned wash is used with a fine brush in target areas, usually nooks and crannies. Again, a few swipes with a brush with clean thinner will clean up any problems.
Another thing to keep in mind, flat paint can retard the smooth flow of washes. Prior to applying a wash, many people gloss coat the surface with Future acrylic floor polish, or other gloss acrylic product, so as to counter this. Another techinique that helps is applying a liberal amount of clean thinner to the surface before applying the wash. I usually do the latter simply because it generally works well for me (because cleaning up an oil wash is so easy) and it saves me the trouble of having to use a flat coat to dull the gloss of the acrylic coat.
A couple last words regarding oil washes: I recommend Windsor and Newton oil paints because out of the tube they tend to dry flatter than most other oil paints (learned this from an art teacher) . Also, to help reduce haphazard glossing of the wash, I also recommend placing the paint on a piece of cardboard for a minute or two, prior to mixing with the thinner. This leaches out the linseed oil which is what can occasionally cause varying gloss across the surface. You may be put off by the investment in oil paints, but a couple of things to keep in mind are that they keep practically forever and they are easily the most forgiving paint to use for washes. If you screw up, clean up is a breeze so they allow you easy experimentation. If you go this route, pick up raw and burnt umber (great for dirtying up most armor colors), paynes grey (a little softer than black), and perhaps raw sienna if you intend to use them on figures. This will give you a good start.

So who makes these oil paints?

I disagree about using acrylics for washes. i prefer it.

I always run into the problem that with using thinner and oil base paints, that it gets into the base coats of oil base paint and screws them up. Of course, I don't do any spraying with Future, or any clearcoating, till I'm done, ususally after the pastel chalk application.

I prefer to use Liquitex Artist Acrylics, generously thinned with water. I'll do a couple passes, to slowly build it up. If there are any mistakes, or blotches, you can lift it while it's still wet, or if its dry, paint over it. Or gently sand it off.

Armor is supposed to be messy though

Johnny,

Winsor & Newton is the brand name of the paint. They are artists oils in tubes. You can pick them up at HoLo. They are pricey but the tubes should last you just about forever.
Just to add a note to what has already been said: Practice your wash first on a crash kit using the EXACT same paints, sealers, thinners, etc. before you try it on your good kit. There is nothing worse than having your good model completely ruined because the thinner you used for your wash reacted with your acrylic base coat and the thing end up looking like a three week old orange.
I have fairly good luck using MM acryl as a base coat, sealing with Future after the base coat is dry and cured, mineral spirits and Winsor & Newtons for the wash.

HTH,

Shaun

Winsor and Newton Website

I have had some success with tamiya acrilyc washes, but I think you should start with some oil washes first, it is safe and easy

I definitely agree that if you paint in enamels, then acrylic washes relieve you of the worry of lifting/crazing. Certainly something to be said for that. I paint in acrylics, however, so I don't worry about this interaction. This being said, however, an indisputable fact remains that acrylics are the least workable of the three main mediums (acrylics, enamels, oils). Once they dry, they are finished, no re-working is possible. Also, my experience with them has led to blotchy results, but I'll admit that I've not tried artists acrylics, just model paints, so perhaps the former may prove superior in a wash.

yes Winsor & Newton is the name of the acrylic oil paint. but i just tryed a neew idea
on my sherman turret.
what i did was i took the testors
burnt amber paint i did not stir it,
and i pured a liltte bit on a pice if card bord
and i did a wash with it.
its the stuff that sits on the top of the paint just before
u stir it. it came out really good.
i never had any good luck useing tuinpime
its only good if u use an acrylic base paint like tamiya.
the turpinme time peeld my tetors paint even with 4 coats of future

jpzr,

I see your point!

i tried tamiya acrylics on a 1/16th figure i was painting and it seemed like everytime I put it down, or rubbed up against it, some of the paint scraped off. Is there any way to avoid that or should I just stick to my enamels?

And just for reference, I REALLY dilute the acrylics in the wash, like 50-100:1. It goes on thin, so even blotchiness isn't very aparent

A Question on Thinner for Oil Washes:

I've been using oil washes for my last couple of models, and I was wondering whether I am using the correct thinner. At present, I use Artist's Turpentine. I coat the model with a varnish of Kleer before washing, so the acrylic is protected from the Turps. However, if I rub too hard when touching up the wash, the Turpentine can strip the arcrylic. Is there any other type of thinner that will work with oils and not attack the arcrylic coat? If so, what is it called, and where do you think I could get some in the UK?

Cheers.

If you are talking about brushing the Tamiya acrylic, it is no surprise you had these problems. The stuff just doesn't brush well, in my opinion. It dries too quickly and doesn't level out well, so brushstrokes are a real pain. Lifting may also be a problem, but that can apply to many acrylics. I prefer a couple of other brands for brushing: Vallejo (the best brushing acrylic I have ever used bar none, although the lighter colors are more difficult to brush than the darker, at least for me) and Polly Scale. Both of these are far, far superior to Tamiya for brushing. Personally, I believe it is because they are truly water based, not alcohol based like Tamiya. All you need to do is thin them well with distilled water and apply in light coats. They level out very well so brush strokes aren't a problem. Great paints.
Finally, one other thing that helps acrylics is priming. While not strictly necessary, a good coat of primer helps the adherence of acrylic paints. The primer bites into the plastic (or resin) and the acrylic seems to bond well with the primer, so lifting isn't a problem.
Ciao!

While far superior modellers swear by turpentine (Mig Jimeniz being one) I just don't like the stuff. It is much stronger than I find necessary, so it may even react with acrylics, as you've experienced. Plus, it takes longer to dry and has a tendancy to dry with haphazard glossiness. Turpenoid (artificial, not natural) or mineral spirits (may be called white spirits in the U.K., not sure) are my choice because they are strong enough to thin oils well, but don't have interaction problems with acrylics. They also dry quickly and if as much linseed oil as possible is removed from the oils before thinning, they dry pretty consistently flat. It is my understanding that both mineral spirits and turpenoid are available in the U.K. Art stores would be a good place to start looking, but their stuff will likely be high quality/high price. Many people swear by the cheap mineral spirits they get at hardware stores here in the States.
Cheers!

Thanks a lot jpzr - i shall definitely try an alternative to Turpentine! You're right, we do call it "white spirit" here in Britain - glad that you told me that, since I've been wondering what "mineral spirits" are for quite a while now!

Many thanks for the advice.

swith over to acrylic oil paint for the washes.
i had trouble with the turpine also,
so now i use acrylic oil paint